Look at these Install Photos

Rob L_4

Ok, I know you will laugh once you see these photos. I think you can characterize this install as "how not to do it". This is a "self installed" job by the customer who calls me for support wondering why he is spending so much money on boiler parts all the time. I finally get photos from the guy, look at them in amazement, and send him a new drawing on how to pipe it in primary/secondary fashion and he calls me back saying my drawing wont work.
Now, I have been been designing hydronic systems for 10 years now and have never seen something so bad as this with a customer unwilling to change.

What about you guys? Ever seen something this bad? Comments from the peanut gallery are accepted- as long as they are directed at the "installer/owner" of the job:)

Thanks,
Rob

Unknown

Rob L

where have you been hiding?, Most (not all) DIY installs are like this. Nothing much out of the "ordinary" here.

Dave

bob_97

Making fun of people.
Really shows your lack of intellengance

Unknown

bob,

hope your comment wasn`t directed at me?

Dave

Bob_93

dave

Yes it was.

jim s_2

bob

Is this your system?

Unknown

bob

I would like to know what I said that made you feel that way? I did not even post those pics, and I most certainly did not single anyone out, I only made a "general" comment as to what we all see, was that wrong?

Dave

Leo G_99

Rob,

no comments about the install, I actually was back at one I did a few years ago. Hopefully the embarrasment didn't show up on my face to "reddily"! LOL!

The thing I find frustrating in these circumstances, is when someone calls me up with a problem like this, and like you, I try to direct them to a set-up that will work. Then they flatly refuse, or start to argue. I am not talking about a client that wonders why what I am suggesting will work better then what they have,but ones that flat out start to argue! When this happens, i just smile, say have a nice day, leave, draw up the consult invoice and put it in the mail.

Leo G

Bob_93

Dave

Your right Dave. I apologize.
It was Rob L who lacks the intellignace.

Unknown

Thanks Bob

I understand and accepted, we all do that at times. Anyway,,,Leo G., I feel your pain!

Dave

LTrub

Looks semi familiar

I think I've seen work like this at a few gov't facilities -- you know, the low bid deal where the contractor sends out the "freshman" to do the job just to keep under his planned budget...
Not that everyone does that, but I've seen it...

Ken D.

Fame

Whew, Copious amounts of unsafe and downright dangerous practices going on there. Fly electrical connections, open electric boxes and relays, romex wire instead of BX or MC. The romex touching the hot piping and sharp edges. Looks like a vent pipe was touching and melting the Rubatex on the right. The kraft paper on the insulation burnt,I assume, by a torch. I couldn't tell, is there a draft diverter? Should be. That sure is not how it is done.

Unknown

I would guess

That may be an "OK thing" to do if you can live with yourself. Most "pros" here do systems as if they were in their own home!

Dave

Darrell

At least I, (a service man), can get to the relief valve to change it! I swear, if I have to take out another relief valve with a hammer and chisel I'm gonna hurt somebody! I followed up with an installer that works in this town...(installer does not equal licensed contractor!)...cuz every relief valve he puts in is done with expando! Try getting that out of a WMC GV boiler. Just go get the two pound hammer and break it off, and clean the brass out with a drill and tap...it's faster. Oh, yeah...he said that's how they do it in the oil field at his day job.

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Mark Hunt

Rob L lacks what????

Intelligence???

He made fun of who???

That install is horrible. H O R R I B L E! But I guess in these days of a "kinder, gentler" nation, we must look past the end result and delve deeper for the intention of the installer??

"He/she tried their very best so no matter what the result, it's all good."

No. No way.

Rob L said nothing wrong and that install is awful.

Mark H

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Boonierat

More entertainment than a grown man deserves

I love these pics; thank you for posting them. It's grand entertainment. This kinda stuff HAS to be real; 'ya could'nt dream this up.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

unfortunately

installs like that are all too common

Just fixed one yesterday. Funny how things turn a full circle sometimes. We bid the original install, but got only the plumbing. Builder went belly-up and we were not yet paid for the plumbing rough-in, so we refused to set the fixtures. The plumber doing the hydronics stepped in and finished the plumbing. Did such a sloppy job that the final inspection failed. I got the call from the PI saying our work was not acceptable! Seems they'd used our permit to finish. The plumber was fined and had his license suspended while the owner was denied an occupancy permit unless we agreed to correct the defiencies. We got paid(G). That was about 20 years ago.

A week ago, I was called to check why a BB hot water system was keeping the owners up all night. Soon as I turned the corner, I remembered the events from 20 years prior. Picture a boiler with no means of air elimination & sloppy workmanship & you've got the picture. Three zone valves with wiring that looked like a tossed bowl of spaghetti. At the time, I wondered about the lousy install and if it would function properly. Took 20 years, but I had my answer. Today, she's running silently - just as hydronics are meant to sound(G).

Dave_4

solder?

> I love these pics; thank you for posting them.

> It's grand entertainment. This kinda stuff HAS to

> be real; 'ya could'nt dream this up.



Okay... I have to ask... Did he solder the joints, or is that JB Weld holding the copper together???

Dave_4

laughing out loud

i'm just glad that i'm not the one who will get this call at 2:30am from the customer when he has no heat and it is 10 degrees outside. ha ha ha.


this is a perfect example why distributors should not sell parts to home owners. CAN I GET AN AMEN??????

Ken D.

Photos

That is another thing. The relief valve is not on the boiler and not piped to floor.

Unknown

to Allenleo...

AAMEEENNNNNN to ya..... And to the rest of those real heating pros..

jim s_2

LOL

This from a guy who can`t even spell "intelligence"

Dave_4

relief valve

no comments about the LWCO location and piping? horizontal tee, too low on boiler.

MikeL_2

Hmmm. And maybe this is an example of why distributors should sell parts to homeowners....It can be done by a homeowner with the right skills and background. I don't see too many insulated pipes in most pro's jobs. BTW, The wideangle distorts things. Everything is plumb and square.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I happen to be a master electrician and the wiring really pisses me off.

I'm not one to stand up and blast plumbers and heating guys and homeowners for doing their own wiring even though the codes in many states would require an electrician to do this work.

And yes, I have herd all the complaints from heating and AC guys about electricians.

I really don't care who does it.

JUST DO IT RIGHT!

Thinking about electrical as an afterthought will burn down lots of buildings.

ED

Aaron Gibson

circ

I don't see a circ.....

hvacfreak

Electric Men

Most " electricians " dont understand the " concept " of relays. Union , non - union...commercial , residential , whatever....thats why heating / AC guys get wrapped up in this most of the time . Then get a homeowner who can grasp the understanding ( not that hard )...and you get what we have in the photos.

MikeL_2

DHW circ is at the bottom of the amtrol. AH circ is in the Lifebreath unit. Nice and clean.

Bob Forand

Ravi

Ravi, nice looking install, however please understand that the majority almost always make the minority look bad. The majority of DIY installs are as bad as the pic's you see. That is why I agree that supplier's should not sell to the public. There are other reasons such as schooling, licensing, tools, insurance's, etc that a contractor must invest in. When suppliers sell to you the DIY'er, it is one less install that a professional contractor has to make a living from.

LTrub

Ltrub