Water in vents?!

Steamhead (in transit)

with the main venting improvements, a lot of dirt could have made its way back to the boilers due to the vastly improved steam circulation. Is the water clean in the sight glasses? Does the level rise and fall a lot?

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Patrick North

Rad vents filling with water

Before the season really got underway, I replaced all of our radiator vents with Hoffman 1A's- seemed to work great, but this is our first year in the place. With the recent cold snap, of course the boilers are running a good bit more than usual, and I started to notice a few rooms weren't heating as well as they had. I took off the radiator vents and found them nearly full of water- I imagine condensate water. After dumping them out, all seems well, but what the heck is going on here? I wouldn't have thought vents could become water traps like this. Does this mean I'm making "wet" steam? There is no drop header, though the basement ceiling is a bit high- may not have required it. A sign of a problem I should attend to?

Unknown

That`s strange Pat

I thought they would have drained back, I`ll have to watch your thread closely.

Dave

Fritz2

Vents filling up

I had a similar problem with my system using the Hoffman 1A's. I replaced them all with Gorton valves and have had much better luck, though very occasionally one of the Gortons will pick up a bit of condensate. If some of your rads will take a Gorton with a straight stem (instead of the 90 degree )these seem to work even better. I am just a homeowner who enjoys this site, so for what its worth...

Dave_4

wet steam

Sight glass water is quite clean, and even with this cold weather it only takes a second for the blow down to run clear. The level is pretty stable while steaming. Been spending more time in the basement lately and I have noticed that while the one main with two Gorton #2' is all but silent, the other main with a single vent sounds like it's really struggling to vent quick enough, as are the rad vents served by that main. It's clean as a whistle, though. Maybe increase main venting further?
But you're right- I only noticed the problem because response time wasn't lightening fast.

Steamhead (in transit)

The side with two vents

also has two mains, with one Gorton #2 vent per main. One of these is connected to the same boiler as the main that sounds like it's struggling. So that tells me the problem may be in the struggling main itself. Check it for proper pitch while it's hot (don't burn yourself) since expansion may alter its pitch. Also check the runouts off that main for the same thing.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Double post

didn't acknowledge my first two tries....

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Steamhead (in transit)

I hate it

when that happens!

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ttekushan_3

I didn't notice until now

that there are two parallel threads on the same problem. The long suffering Mel Rowe has flooding TRVs elsewhere.

Steamhead, if you could take a peek at what I said there. I've encountered two buildings in a week with the same problem. Incidentally, in my case, the horizontal runouts are very short.

Steamhead (in transit)

Done!

nm

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Dave_4

Lemme get this straight...

Debated between joining the flooded TRV thread and potentially derailing it, so...
So I gather that with the increase main venting, the steam is now traveling as fast as it should, though it may have outstripped its originally condensate handling capabilities. The steam's rushing past relatively more return condensate and dragging it back up to the radiators- something like that? I gather this is further aggravated by the boilers being oversized. As you suggested, I checked out the pitch of the mains, runouts, etc., and don't see anything to cause for alarm. So, short of having the setup altered to increase the pitch, and replacing the boilers with appropriately sized models, not much can be done, eh? I'm still surprised that any vents would be designed to trap water this way- any recommendations for some that don't, if only to save me the hassle of emptying the buggers out every day?
Thanks,
Patrick

Naper Dave

water logged steam vents

hoffman 1a and doles (varible vents) both fail constantly on certain radiators. Removing, shaking out, stand to dry has been the weekly routine. All are 90 elbow style.

Steamhead (in transit)

Gorton vents

seem to do better than most.

Also, I can't remember- your steam mains are fully insulated, right?

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Steamhead (in transit)

Gorton vents

seem to do better than most.

Also, I can't remember- your steam mains are fully insulated, right?

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Dave_4

OK!

Yup, they're insulated now, though I think I could be doing better. Found that that side of the basement gets DARN cold- probably not helping things much.
Thanks for your help,
Patrick

mike jones_2

wet steam

did your wet vents problem ever solve? we have same problem, even after installing big gorton's uprights on mains and checking all else on the system.

Strange thing is we have no knocking, just tiniest occasional tapping at beginning and end of cycle in some risers but you have to really listen for it.

the only thing we not done is skim boiler, or try SURGE X, but the glass is clean, ph is good and blow down runs clear pretty quick. i guess we could risk new water and drain whole boiler. anything missing here?

Patrick North

Darn...

I was anxious to see this thread as it sounded just like a problem I've had- how surprised am I that it's my original thread!
In short, no, I haven't figured it out. I can't help but think it has someting to do with the grossly oversized boiler setup. Over 100% oversized when we first moved in, and due to subsequent insulating (and downsizing of radiation) it's even moreso. But being that I won't be able to test out that theory 'till these beasts kick the bucket and need to be replaced ($$$$), getting to spend another season emptying vents is OK by me. The design of the Hoffman 1A might contribute to it as well, or an off level vent tapping. But I'm no expert. Let me know if you have any brainstorms.
Patrick North

ps-

Hey Burnham- this PA boy says: Put a gas burner on your Mega Steam and I'll buy two of 'em!

Tom Hopkins

Tom Hopkins

DOES ANYONE KNOW AN ALTERNATIVE TO TSP?

We are going to try skimming the boiler.
However, TSP is not sold in NY, since it's supposedly illegal due to the effects of phosphates on the environment.
DOES ANYONE KNOW AN ALTERNATIVE TO TSP?
There is a TSP 90 substitute, but we can't find if that's safe for boilers.
We tried skimming without chemicals but none of the minimal oily-looking stuff in the gauge glass came out the skim tap.
We know everyone says don't add chemicals, but the manufacturer is saying chemicals might be necessary to force the oils to the top.

Tom Hopkins

ok heres the brainstorm

Straight vents should drain better than angle vents, i guess, but proper vent placement is apparently NOT on top of radiatiors. SO, i might try a tiny 1/8 street elbow out of side of radiator vent hole and pop on a STRAIGHT stem vent. Am I swinging at windmills here? at least i'm happy, cold, but happy!

PS. i'm told the tail on the hoffman is a syphon to dump back condensate, but someone here said the gortons were working much better for wet steam and thats without a fancy syphon tail. so far, the vent tech people have been amazingly silent, like they are selling mousetraps or something. anyway isn't the glue trap better! ok, its late and did i say i'm cold.