Crown Boilers - noisy!??

Cosmo_3

I assume your current CT35 uses a chimney for exhaust? Most of you noise comes from the barometric damper. I have had limited success with turning the damper to face in another direction to try to dissipate the sound onto another surface before you hear it. Also Buderus makes a muffler for oil fired boilers that although it costs a couple bucks does work pretty good. Cheaper than buying a new boiler? Yes.

What burner is installed on your current boiler?

Yes the Crown ODV is the same basic boiler as the CT Freeport series, with the addition of combustion chamber lining, and a Carlin burner with an intake air kit. These boilers are very quiet because there is no opening along the exhaust piping to let sound exit into your house. But I would be hard pressed to recommend a customer of mine to stop using a perfectly good (is it?) chimney and install a side venting boiler. Just don't seem right.... but then you will get other opinions here and that is what this site is for. I have 4 ODV boilers out there and they work fine, so do the 15 CT boilers I have installed.

Is you boiler located in the basement? Could you create a mechanical room and close it off to seal the sound? If so don't forget to keep in mind combustion air. have a pro check it out and make some recommendations.


Cosmo

AM

Crown Boilers - noisy!??

Can anyone speak to Crown Boilers and the amount of noise they make? Is there a remedy? I had one installed in my home and it sounded like and felt like a Mack truck was running through my house. After 2 winters of this my heating guys replaced it with a Crown that is now whisper quiet. Then my mother bought a house with a 5 year old Crown in it (no automatic feeder, ay ay ay) and, voila - a mini Mack! Is there anything we can do short of replacing this thing - and if not what should we put in the house?? - Oil fired Steam heat. Thanks

AM

Crown Boilers - noisy!??

Can anyone speak to Crown Boilers and the amount of noise they make? Is there a remedy? I had one installed in my home and it sounded like and felt like a Mack truck was running through my house. After 2 winters of this my heating guys replaced it with a Crown that is now whisper quiet. Then my mother bought a house with a 5 year old Crown in it (no automatic feeder, ay ay ay) and, voila - a mini Mack! Yea, it vibrates the entire house (doesn't this contribute to walls cracking)? Is there anything we can do short of replacing this thing - and if not what should we put in the house?? - Oil fired Steam heat. Thanks

Phil_21

I hear your pain!!!

I am having the same trouble with my brand new Smith boiler. The company said they haven't had any complaints about the noise, that was until I complained. I just spent a few thousand dollars on this one, so it will be a while before I can replace. I may end up switching to a furnace in a few years when my central air goes out.

Cosmo_3

facts

Dear AM,

Please give us the Make and model # for the existing (old) boiler that was quiet.

Then Give us the Model # for the Crown boiler you say was noisy.

And finally the Model # of the Crown boiler that is now "whisper quiet".

I would to make clear to the rest of us here on the site what particular boilers you are talking about. This way those of us who consider ourselves "pros" can give you qualified opinions as to your noise issue.

Caution we may ask for more info like, where your chimney is located, is this a sidewall vented product, etc.

Thanks!

Cosmo

Cosmo_3

Phil,

What Brand/Model# boiler was installed in your home prior to your current HB Smith boiler?

Thanks!

Cosmo

Bernie Riddle_2

Yea I have same problem

I have a CT35 in my basement and when its set up with a barometric damper it sonds like a 747 about to take off.

I have pretty much gave up on it and am going to replace it with a direct vent unit ASAP.

What did they replace your boiler with a ODV?

Phil_21

I had a Mt Hawley 7000 boiler before I had the Smith put in. It was quieter and a good boiler, just 35 years old

Cosmo_3

new boiler model #?

Your old boiler probably had a burner that used a motor that spun @ 1725 RPM. Those burners were nice, quiet and much more inefficient than your new burner that spins @ 3450RPM to help develop more airflow and a cleaner burn.



Cosmo

Phil_21

> Your old boiler probably had a burner that used a

> motor that spun @ 1725 RPM. Those burners were

> nice, quiet and much more inefficient than your

> new burner that spins @ 3450RPM to help develop

> more airflow and a cleaner burn.

>

>

>

> Cosmo



That is exactly what the company said, he told me I should soundproof my boiler room, my question is how are other more efficient boilers more quiet if they use a faster fan?

Phil_21

That is exactly what the company said, he told me I should soundproof my boiler room, my question is how are other more efficient boilers more quiet if they use a higher speed?

Cosmo_3

easy...

That answer is really easy....it depends!

What other boiler are you comparing to?

There are a lot of different brands out there. One thing I think that may make one oil boiler quieter than another is if it has a kaowool combustion chamber. Boilers that include these are usually steel boilers, or dry-base cast iron boilers. The chamber is made of a soft semi porous material that probably absorbs sound.

The Crown Freeport, just like the Buderus G-115, The Viessmann VR-100, the new Burnham 3 pass, the Weil McLain Ultra Oil, and most all of the other "new" style (don't kill me Ken) three pass cast iron boilers with swing out doors will be just as loud as each other with some slight variances due to baffle design. They may be a little noisier because these 85-87% Eff boilers don't use kaowool combustion chambers and are all wet-base boilers, meaning the cast iron combustion chamber (where the fire happens) is surrounded by water and the kaowool lining is not needed to protect the boiler metal because the water takes away the heat.

See, it is not a "Crown" thing, more accurately it is the design of the boiler.

Personally I would rather have one of these boilers because they will never need to have a combustion chamber lining replaced, they are easier to clean and service, and besides all that I like the noise because it is music to my ears...well until I realize that the noise is my money going up in smoke!!!!

Hopefully you understood, I am afraid that I got a little technical. Maybe someone else can describe it better in laymen's terms or provide you with pictures.

Thanks!

Cosmo

Phil_21

Thank you for making sense of all that, I am learning to live with the noise. I tend to turn the tv up a little bit. You repeated everything the company told me about the easier to service the 85% boilers than the more efficient ones. I do like the heat it produces though, therefore, I can live with it

Bernie Riddle_2

Cosmo, My CT35 is hooked up to a Tjernlund SS2 power venter and the burner is a Beckett AFG.

The original installer should have installed a ODV.....

If I run the 4 inch all the way down to the back of the boiler, keep the damper off of it, and turn the draft up mine is quiet enough that I could deal with it, but then its ineficient as you know because the power vent is vaccuming all my heat out of the boiler and I end up heating the back yard lol.

I have considered switching to a differnt burner but then if that doesnt work I am out still more money that I could spend on a direct vent unit.

Very frustrated at this point with the whole deal......

Bernie Riddle_2

Living with the noise

Well, I am not going to live with it much longer. I just went and looked at a direct vent unit the other night. It was a peerless and the only thing you hear when its running is the riello burner.....Absolutley NO cobustion noise whatsoever.

I swear when this CT35 is set up right it sounds just like the 150000 BTU torpedo heater I use to heat my garage!

kevin coppinger_4

it's not the boiler...

its the power venter that is so loud...put in a all-fuel chimney....you may not be happy w/ the direct vent....kpc

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

AM

Crown Boilers, cont....

Thanks for the responses and input.
More specifically:

From Cosmo:
"Make and model # for the existing (old) boiler that was quiet".
Me:
It's not quiet - it's noisy, like a small, or even medium-sized, Mack Truck. This is the one I am concerned with. The model # on the sticker on the boiler says #KSZ175BOFZZPSU(?) It's the Kingston, or is that just obvious? I'm the layperson you speak of. Beckett burner.

Cosmo:
"Then Give us the Model # for the Crown boiler you say was noisy".
Me:
I don't have that model # at hand. Beckett burner

Cosmo:
"And finally the Model # of the Crown boiler that is now "whisper quiet"".
Me:
It's the Freeport ODV but I don't have the model # at hand. Beckett burner.

And yes, Kevin, they thought the noise had to do with the side vent - but they changed that out a couple of times. They have since installed the Freeport ODV with a new side vent with absolutely no problems or noise.

Cosmo, I don't understand the "music to my ears". Did I somehow miss the "Boiler Rhapsody"? - perhaps one of Gershwin's lesser known works?

Thanks

Cosmo_3

question for DC

If I may ask where exactly is this boiler located?


Cosmo

AM

your CT35

> I have a CT35 in my basement and when its set up

> with a barometric damper it sonds like a 747

> about to take off.

>

> I have pretty much gave up

> on it and am going to replace it with a direct

> vent unit ASAP.

>

> What did they replace your

> boiler with a ODV?



I must have had the CT35 with the side vent in my basement before - yeah, the 747. They replaced it with the Freeport ODV and I can't hear a thing. Now that is music to MY ears.
Here's the deal, though - My contractor agreed that the noise was horrendous and pretty much unlivable (after 2 years of their coming out to the house to remedy the noise). He replaced the burner and vent at his cost. I think I'm lucky to have a contractor to follow through like that. Have you maintained communication with your contractor in regard to the noise? It's worth a try...

AM

your CT35

I must have had the CT35 with the side vent in my basement before - yeah, the 747. They replaced it with the Freeport ODV and I can't hear a thing. Now that is music to MY ears.
Here's the deal, though - My contractor agreed that the noise was horrendous and pretty much unlivable (after 2 years of their coming out to the house to remedy the noise). He replaced the burner and vent at his cost. I think I'm lucky to have a contractor to follow through like that. Have you maintained communication with your contractor in regard to the noise? It's worth a try...

Cosmo_3

DC- CAUTION!!!!!!!

PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH YOUR BOILER!!!!!

I am assuming you are not a professional burner tech. You may be putting you or your family at risk.

As far as changing things on your existing boiler, have your heating guy call the factory. They may be able to come up with a solution as far as getting rid of the barometric damper. But this can only be done with the factory's blessing. maybe your CT can be converted into an ODV without physically removing the boiler block.

Again I emphasize, I would only make modifications with the factory's blessing.

I just came back from a service call, and I ended up giving him a quote for a new boiler because he thought he knew enough to maintain his existing one. Only he never noticed the combustion chamber lining needed replacement and now he has a leaker.........and no heat for tonight

Cosmo

Cosmo_3

nice

I like the response AM.

Cosmo

Cosmo_3

Your torpedo heater

Not to make light of your noisy situation, but exactomundo!!! Your right, your boiler is JUST like the torpedo heater.

Torpedo heaters that burn kerosene have a pump, and and an ignition and nozzle assembly just like your lovably noisy yet toasty boiler. Only difference is your boiler has more mass, and well, other than it designed to heat water instead of just spew it's combustion in your face to heat a room, oh and that a boiler is a "certified pressure vessel" that phrase means..."expensive"!.

Cosmo

Big Bob_2

We used to use the crown at a company I used to work for, Beckett had changed from the f heads to the V & L heads, they said it was the same as the setup for the burnham v series, it was really quieter than the old way. we set up a peerless with a nx beckett, it was really quieter than the riello. Beckett shows the nx available for the crown tobego but not the freeport, wonder why?

Cosmo_3

This thread is getting confusing, or I am tired......

AM,

Okay, so your Mother's Crown model Kingston oil fired steam boiler sounds like a Mack truck. Now is that the "Baby 8" or the gianormous tractor truck?

Ok just kidding.

Well, again depends.

Steam eh? Are you talking about water hammer? Do you here what might be something like a little, little man inside the piping banging away with a 10 pound sledge hammer? Does the chimney run through the middle of the house? Has the boiler been serviced lately? What does your service guy say?

Cosmo

Bernie Riddle_2

Location

I am in Southcentral PA.

You mean you cant hear it? Its firing away as I type this!

Cosmo_3

in your HOUSE

Sorry if I mislead you. I meant in your house


Cosmo

Bernie Riddle_2

So you like the ODV AM?

This would be my most cost effective way to swap to a direct vent unit as it would have the same inlet outlet locations as my CT35. I just have not been able to talk to anyone who has one in service.

So its REALLY quiet right?

Bernie Riddle_2

Sorry my bad

Its in the basement. Main problem is other then a bathroom the entire downstairs is open and no walls to dampen the noise so there is no escaping it.

AM

Yes, DC, I really like the ODV

The new ODV was beyond my expectations.

Your set-up sounds just like what I have in my house.

The furnace was originally vented through a center chimney but as I also heat with wood stove and wanted to make best use of a big chimney (radiant heat from the brick and stone and only one flue) I opted to vent the boiler out the side of the house. I had explained to my contractor - call him Bill - that I don't care for the sound of any fan or blower and wondered if I should put up insulated pipe on the side of the house. My contractor assured me they would install a suitable side vent system - which would operate with a minimum of sound. Eventually we got it right. Oh, yeah, it's quiet alright - the house is rural, no street lights, quiet, quiet country road and I get all nervous when it sounds like a jet plane sudddenly crasshes into my house and everything starts shaking and rumbling in the middle of the night. Now the house is quiet all thru the night.

And, yes, the new system is vented through the exact same inlet outlet location as the first Mack Truck/747 unit.

Let me know if you want to know anything else. I hope you have as much luck with yours as I have with mine (the good part, I mean). Keep me posted - AM

AM

\"Baby 8\"

The gianormous tractor truck was in my house in the basement. My mother's house (where I'm staying right now) has the Baby 8.

Yeah, steam. Yes, there is a bit of water hammer - mostly when I forget to turn of the feeder after I drain it.
Yeah, the chimney runs through the middle of the house.
Supposedly, the boiler was serviced in September when she bought the house. I've called my service guy 3 times and can't get him to give me a time when he'll be out - he'll "call me when he's in the area". He's also installing a baseboard in one of the bedrooms at my house -where I'm not right. I am seriously considering another service guy to service the steam heat system.

Yeah, actually this might be getting confusing.

Bernie Riddle_2

Too late for that lol.

I have had the burner out at least 10 times tried different nozzle settings, draft setiings, pipe configurations pump pressures and on and on and on........

Also had several techs look at it and even spent $169 the other week to have ot set with insturments only to switch it back to the way I had it before because the noise was rediculous....

Dont worry I have carbon monoxide detectors in the house lol.

With what I been through with this thing I not taking any chances.......

Bernie Riddle_2

Bob are you talking about the Direct vent peerless with the NX burner?

I asked the person who I am going to have install it and he said he hadnt seen any with the NX burner.

AM

DC - Update on Crown/Beckett combo

DC,

Seems that the Crown/Beckett combo may be part of the problem. As Cosmo pointed out the Crown does not have the same luxury of Koawool to baffle some of the sound and the way the Beckett burner is designed makes for noisy combustion due the fact that it has a shorter flame when it combusts once inside the chamber - if you listen you can hear it burn at the front of your boiler right where the burner goes into the boiler. Now to my understanding the Carlin (and I don't know about the Tjerland) combusts with a longer flame so the noise of the fuel burning is more spread out and thereby more difused.

And, of course, the fact that you don't have an ODV system doesn't help if you have a direct vent on there. If and when you do change your system out try to combine the ODV with a Carlin or other than Beckett Burner. For your direct venting sytem look into the SWG Sealed Combustion unit from FIELDCONTROLS - www.fieldcontrols.com or call 252-522-3031.

I hope this helps.

AM