Heat for cheap house

Empire_2

I think everyone is on to something, BUT I also think that minimal cost is in affect here. It's like a rental just so people can go skiing and whatever. They come back, sleep, maybe have a drink and back out again. I think he just wants to temper the structure. It's not a retreat for fortune 500 executives to call home for 3 months out of the year:-)

Mike T.

Gene Davis_2

I knew that would get your attention again!

I'm the builder doing the small spec house to sell to vacation home buyers, up here in the frozen wastelands of New York's northern Adirondack region. I am trying to educate myself as to the heating needs of this place so that when my chosen heating contractor gets back to me with a proposal, I am not flying totally blind.

The large mainfloor space that includes, without any wall separation, is my big worry. It had better be able to be heated comfortably, and our morning temp two days ago was minus 27.

Using a link at this site, I downloaded SlantFin's heat loss calc program, and ran the numbers for the "room" that includes the foyer, stairway downstairs, greatroom, and eat-in kitchen. There's a whole lotta outside wall, a lot of glass, and a vaulted ceiling going from 9/0 to 13/9.

I plugged in the data using the SlantFin program, and came up with 40,743 Btu/h of heat loss. Floor radiant is not even possible for a solution . . . there is only 444 sf of floor available.

I went to the Myson site and started to digest specs for steel panel radiators and fan convectors. Here is what I came up with.

At the large gable end wall with most all the glass, two panel radiators, Eclipse IVC PP 22 60160 (11,311 Btu/h each), in the toekick under the kitchen sink, one toekick WH II 9000 fan convector (10,875), and over adjacent the stairway down, one lowmount 14-10 fan convector (14,250). The total comes to 47,747 Btu/hr. This, all at 180 water temp.

The boiler, TBA (I'm liking Munchkin but don't know anything) will be LP fired, and the large room has a gas fireplace, a Heat&Glo that is capable of supplying a lot of heat, but you cannot figure a fireplace into the equation, right?

Am I on the right track here?

Empire_2

Something just don't seem right.

I know that the cabin is small, but the out door temps coupled with 4 exposed walls and large window area tells me that 44m heat loss approx. is light......

My .02

Mike T.

Gene Davis_2

I tried to be conservative

For the exterior walls, I used a factor one notch down from the insulation we'll use. Same for the ceiling overhead, all of which is under roof.

Let's say, though, that the 40 that the SlantFin program returned is light, and that it is 20 percent more, or 48.

Since my heat output of the chosen radiators and convectors matches the 48, won't I be OK?

The system might have a little trouble keeping up if no one is there and the temps go way down, but if someone is there, they'll be using that gas fireplace with its blower, and things can get real toasty, and fast.

Empire_2

Gene

I see what you are doing....I don't have a problem with that. If the Heat loss is x amount then it should be fine and coupled with the fire place, I think you are on the right track. I would though give yourself the 10 to 20% additional factor in your calcs. Sounds like It can get mighty blustery up there:-)

Mike T.

Al Corelli_2

I'd leave some more room for error.



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Vermonter

Passive solar?

Have you given more (or any) consideration to passive solar heat and a passive solar slab?

hr

All the heat load calculators

have a fudge factor, from my experience.

Years ago the RPA compared a half a dozen different programs. They found a wide spread. It sure felt like all the manufactures added a fudge factor to the fudge number that was in the IBR H21 manual 21 they all based their programs on.

Knowing this, and if your data input was spot on, I'd use the number you have, and spec the emitters to that. Keeping in mind heat load calcs are always somewhat of a guess and swayed mostly by the actual building construction quality and workmanship. (Cheap and quick building practices often compromise the estimated load number

Keep in mind you could push temperatures above 180 for below design days. I have seen fin tube system designed and operated at 200 plus to cut down on emitter lengths and size!

An outdoor reset control would handle this temperature increase for you automatically.

hot rod

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Vermonter

I meant redesign the house totally...

I was talking about considering a different architecture that utilizes more passive solar heating than LP.

http://www.nesea.org/buildings/passive.html

http://jc-solarhomes.com/passive_solar.htm

http://www.thenaturalhome.com/passivesolar.html

jp_2

vermonter,

I think he said this house in thick in pine trees,

Dave_4

YES!

Thank you, Mike. You hit the nail on the head. Ski vacation camp house.

Temper the place. Yep!

The great room will have that little Heat-N-Glo LP gas fireplace, rated at 20,000 to 30,000 Btuh input, so I think they can be quite comfy, with the fireplace supplementing the radiators and whatever else we do to heat the large common room.

Attached is a photo of the competition. This little 1496 sf 3 br 2 ba house sold well before completion, price $265K, and is heated with cheap baseboards, one T-stat controlling the whole shebang run off a WM WGO oilfired, no outdoor reset, no radiant anywhere, cold unfinished basement under the main floor heated with a little HW fan convector, size of a shoe box, mounted over the boiler over in the corner.