Radiant heat - Let's see if I got this right

Barb

I'm really quite touched by the genuine responses I get on this board. I have a confession to make here. I hope it doesn't cause more harm than good, but here goes. Of all the trades, my past experience has been that plumbers are the most difficult to deal with; that they are the most likely to be dishonest, and that has bothered me. Being here has totally changed my feelings in that regard. It has given me numerous smiles in the past days to think about how nice y'all have been, and I thank you for that.

As to my plumbing situation, I'll start with the air. I said that I hear it on start-up, but that isn't really right. I hear a rustling in some of the loops which is most noticable to me when it first goes on. Since I had the air scoops open at some of the manifolds, I figured that was the problem.

As for the leak, it is really small. It isn't enough to make a puddle on the floor, but has corroded the metal strap that holds the manifold in place and has gunked up the metal at the end of the manifold.

I didn't get to making the drawing yet, but maybe tomorrow.
No, it's not cuz the Giants lost, I just haven't been motivated to sit down there by myself.

I hope everyone had a peaceful day today.
Barb

Barb

OK, here goes

I managed to get a copy of the posts on the first thread I started just before it got erased! I'll post what I think y'all said and ask you to comment.

In order to get the air out of my radiant loops, I need to:
1) isolate them one at a time.
2) make sure the zone valve is open.
3) make sure the air scoop is open.
4) raise the thermostat so the system is moving
5) increase the pressure by lifting the lever on the pressure reducing valve at the boiler, making sure not to overdo it.

It feels like something in there isn't quite right. I also totally get 1,3,4 and 5, but I'm unsure about 2.

1) If I raise the thermostat, will it be open, or should I move the lever at the bottom of the box into the locked open position? (all the way to the right)

2)Am I confusing two different ways to release the air.

3)Will I be opening the spigot near the zone valve to let water out, or is that another way?

I really appreciate the answers I got in the first round. This is such a nice little community. I'm so glad I found this place.

[Deleted User]

Grass hopper...

I see you've returned to the mountain for more information... Good move.

Remember in my first response to you to think like water.

In order to "force purge" your heating system, you will need to send water IN in an orderly direction, allowing it to come OUT, forcing bubbles and air along with it. The boiler doesn't necessairily need to be running during this process. You're using city water pressure to move the water. You can manually open and close individual zone valves to accomplish your feat without having the boiler running.

For your convenience, here's the link to your original post.

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=213956&_#Message213956

Copy and paste it into the browser window.

Some questions for you. What makes you think it's an air problem?

Can you generate a simple drawing showing all of the near boiler piping, or better yet, take pictures and post them.

I'd hate to be sending you down the wrong road without seeing the road signs first Grasshopper...

Merry Christmas

ME

Barb

Psych!

Hi Mark. This is cool; it's like I have a bunch of new friends. This quest I'm on has had me home a lot, so it is a nice gift.

I think it's air in the loops cuz I can hear noise in some of them when the system powers up. I also think it's air cuz I had the air scoops open, and there's a leak at one of the manifolds.

I love to draw and don't have a camera, so I'll get to that just as soon as the Giants game is over!

By the way, I have a copy of the last thread and an 8 year old computer, so that's the easiest way for me to handle things, but thanks for thinking of me. I have a scanner but really don't know how to use it that well, so we'll see how that goes.

Ta Ta for now.

Brian (Tankless)

Besides all the new friends

you've found, your questions & pro answers, indirectly help the other 5,000 + visitors just like you who show up here each & every day.

This ain't such a SMALL place after all, is it, Barb.

TTFN, and please come back.

Merry Christmas, Barb, Tankless.

jerry scharf_3

different kinds of noise

Barb,

You say you hear the noise on start up only. Please describe the noise.

Also, you say there is a leak in the manifold. This is serious, please describe it in detail. The reson this is so serious is that with a leak and a auto-fill valve, you could be continuously adding fresh water to the system. the fresh water will have oxygen in it, and this will eat up the boiler, and pumps.

Also, to follow up on Mark's post. The easy way to handle the water flowing out is to attach a hose to the point where the water comes out and put it in a bucket that can overflow. Then as you purge, you will be able to see the air come out as bubbles.

jerry

Kevin O. Pulver

I'm not offended Barb

Plumber Contractors are like Preachers. There's some good, knowledgable, honest ones who can really help you. Then there's a bunch who are Greedy Snake oil Salesmen you don't want to get within a mile of. (Same thing with Chiropractors and just about any profession I guess)
The difference is it's not technically immoral to be a contractor or doctor just for the money, (Profit is good and necessary, Greed is a separate issue and never a virtue) Happy New Year! Kevin

Tom R.

Perfection

I think you have learned that this bunch are not just plumbers, they are by far the most knowledgeable craftsmen in the industry, so secure in their abilities that they don't mind sharing what they know, so that all who visit here should benefit.

Barb

I see your point

Kevin - Funny you should mention chiropractors. I happen to have the best ones in 6 states, so I have a completely different viewpoint in that area. I know all trades have both kinds of people. I'm just glad I found this place so I could change my point of view.

Tom - You're so right. There's nothing more exhilirating, both for the teacher and the student, than to have someone eager to learn and eager to teach. I love running across confident contractors, cuz I want to know so many things. I also teach hands on classes in home renovation, and enjoy that experience too.

Thanks for all that, and the help you give here.

Kevin O. Pulver

Glad to hear you got a good one Barb!

One of my best friends is a chiropractor and clinical nutritionist. My mother has been an Registered Nurse for 43 years. Needless to say there has been a conflict of philosophies but after 20 years of seeing the amazing help we have gotten, even Mom has been converted! She now seeks chiropractic help FIRST as opposed to only if hell were to freeze over. Kevin

Barb

More questions

Until I can get a picture of my system on this board, I thought I'd ask some other questions.

In an effort to try and save money, I started lowering the temp of the water that runs through the loops. When my system started not working, I read a manual I have and found out that I was doing it wrong.

My system is set such that it reads the outside temp (left dipswitch is up). I now know that if the water returning to the boiler gets too cold, the pumps will slow down to protect my boiler. I had it to the point that the pumps wouldn't go past 10% and on cold days it wasn't enough to heat my house. It turned out I lowered the max temp all the way to the right, so I fixed that. I found out that if it's set to read the outside temp, the other temp control is deactivated.

Is it best to have it set to respond to the outside temp (my coldest days are maybe 10 degrees), which I think means I can't really contol the temp of the water through the loops, or can I do it differently?

Hopefully I explained that right.
Also, when I purge the air out of the loops, do I use the pressure reducer valve for the whole house, or the one they installed at the boiler?

Kevin O. Pulver

Where you been?

Barb, it would be the pressure reducing valve at the boiler. We don't care about the rest of the house right now. It may be operating at 60PSI or more and your boiler at 12-20. If you are operating on outdoor reset, supply water temps are adjusted according to how cold it is outside. This is on the theory that your house doesn't lose heat as quickly when it's warmer, and your supply water temp can be say, 110 degrees instead of 140 for example. Otherwise you would be operating in "setpoint" mode where you set the temp you want and it keeps it there regardless of outdoor conditions. This is typically less efficient. Where are you located? Kevin in Nebraska