Hot Surface Igniter

Timco

Tim,

I appreciate your reply but am a bit confused by your last statement. I felt by assessing the situation...the regular failure of the igniter...and noting the condition of the failed part...white film, over-heated appearance...a repositioning of the igniter and a change out of the ignition module was in order. As previous modifications had been made at some point in the past, and this is causing perfectly good parts to fail regularly, a repositioning was in order. The unit was examined closely to ensure proper firing, and all safty devices such as the falme sensor were installed in their original positions. A combustion analysis was performed and all was within specs. Understanding all these aspects, and having passed the Rocky Mountain Gas Association's classes on gas-fired equipment (put on by Questar, our local gas company) I felt perfectly competent to make the assertions I did and make the adjustment to the igniter position that I did. Not trying to imply I know it all and further training is not needed, just trying to justify the decision I made.

Tim

Timco

I had a no heat call from the wife of a friend of mine today...he was at work. He had replaced the HSI every year for the past 3 years running. She was sick of it dieing. As I examined it, it was set right through the center of the top burner. (Furnace horizontal). I figured this may be a good time to try those new igiters that are silicone nitride...or something like that. It glowed, but would not get to 1100-1200*, so the gas never lit. I replaced it with a new HSI, and set the new igniter to just below the burner so it was not impinging the flame and all lit great. Was his placement likely the cause of the previous failures?

Tim

Larry F

Tim

I would be leary of re-positioning anything without some sort of documented communication with the supplier or manufacturer. May be useful to check with the dealer to see if any factory bulletins address the issue. I haven't seen any ignitor/bracket assemblies that have any leeway for the installer to adjust the location. Pretty much goes where it goes. Curious what brand you have there.

I remember a few years back Smith boilers had an issue with ignitor placement. Smith called it a slight rumble. Customers called it something else. They also had an issue with the location of a rollout switch near the ignitor giving nuisance trips. They addressed both in bulletins along with approved remedies. Those ignitors are pretty durable (unless they're dropped...ooops) and designed to live in a hellish environment. Most of the premature failures I've encountered I think can be traced to oversizing of the furnace or other short-cycling problems. Like light bulbs, they come on just so many times until the little white spot appears.

We installed a fairly expensive free-standing heater a few years back that had a delayed ignition problem on LP. The pilot was obviously not located in the best spot for smooth ignition. The dealer told us to bend the bracket to wherever it would light correctly. We declined to alter it and pretty much told them for the kind of money it cost, it shouldn't need to have parts bent. Needless to say, the customer returned it and selected another model from a different dealer. Didn't need alterations on number two. CYA was engrained in me way back. Even though I often see solutions to problems, I'm always very leary of alterations of any kind without the manufacturer's blessing. Lawyers have feeding frenzies on just this sort of stuff. Just my $.02

Larry

Timco

Furnace is an Amana Air Command 80...installed in early 80's by best guess. In a crawl space. The bracket has been 'modified' by someone in the past, with a bracket screwed on with sheet metal screws and the opening was enlarged with what looks like tin snips. No history or idea what happened...just failing igniters. Given the short lifespan, I determined they were over-heating, or being subjected to more heat than they needed to. Furnace runs smooth. No other reason to go through these things. Cycles great, heats well. I actually had my suplier act suprised that I wanted to at least match up the old igniter..."most guys use anything that is the same voltage"...Thus the recommend on the glo stick thing...

Thanks, Tim

Larry F

whatever is on the truck

I'd sure like to see the manufacturers try to go with some standard igniter. Makes for a lot of inventory trying to keep the various types on hand. Seems like they would like to increase chances that correct replacements were more likely to get put on. Doesn't seem like too much to ask, especially when so many are identical in amperage and dimentions only to have individual notches at the base to mate with brand-specific brackets. Yikes. Cutting sheet metal to make one work does sound a bit over the top. A middle of the night call in freezing weather usually results in using whatever igniter happens to be on the truck. Musta been pretty cold the night that puppy was installed.

Larry

Unknown

This post is why

I stay in business training people to keep from blowing someone up. Some of the stuff I read about what people are doing and their take on gas igntion systems keeps me sticking around instead of going into retirement, it sounds to me like some training is neeeded.

Greig

hsi

On the older amana's the ingitior warm up time is 45 seconds. By changing the ingition control to a honeywell S8910U-1000 the warm up time is 17 seconds. The old ingitor was beening cooked to death. Almost all ingitor warm up time is now 17 seconds. Also a surge protector helps pro-long the life if the power is not always clean. This is an approved repair for constantly burning out ingitors.

Timco

That ignition module (WR 50D-47) also x-referenced to the Robert Shaw 780-910, which I used. I set the ignition warmup time for 34 seconds. The other option is 17 seconds. This control works great. Took very little time to trace the wires & convert...

Tim

Kniggit

most of the time i have seen ignitors fail it is because of some standard issues that most competant installers are over looking. is the furnace ducted properly and cycling on high limit? is it obviously over sized?, clean air filter? blower vibrations? think of the ignitor like a light bulb, verry hot and if you shake it it goes bad, or if you flip it on and off enough times it just goes bad.

ryan_7

ignitor

We have seen yearly ignitor failure is usually due to cycling on high limit. I suggest strongly you get a new burner shield, the part that holds the ignitor, from Amana.

scott inM.E.

the units vent pitch should be considered....

Laars endurance boilers would have ignitor issues due to improper vent pitch. Condensing boilers need good vent pitch away from the unit.

Unknown

Tim, I was not refering to you

I was refering to the fact that it apparently was modified by someone before you got involved. I think you did fine, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Timco

Thanks, I appreciate that. I have done what I can to be certified and have more than an educated guess. As I mentioned, my supplier was shocked that I would replace the part with an identical one. I do think I will end up taking the advise of the post that suggested a new burner shield, with a new correct igniter placement. There are alot of hacks out there...many of them homeowners like my friend...who will sell or install whatever is closest, cheapest, or has the most profit margine. The danger is in the (sometimes lack of) details with gas fired appliances.

Tim