steam problem

Stan_7

I don't know if this is the right forum or that you answer questions from building tenants. Please let me know. The building is privately owned. Our building has 189 families and has 7 floors. The first floor is the basement having 29 apartments. The boiler is on this level. Here is the problem. I have been told there is an ouside sensor. The inside sensor is on the return. I don't know what that means. Not all apartments have no heat. 7th floor has most complaints. NYC law requires 68 degrees inside when less than 55 degrees outside. Apartment temperatures run 60 degrees or less. Building agent says management is within the law. How does the boiler know when apartment has reached 68 degrees? Where would I look to see the setting of 68 degrees?

ken_36

steam problem

Have 1 pipe steam with onvectors. System will run fine for 1 hour. Then short cycles for up to 1 hour to raise temp the final 1 degree. Is something the convectors to shut down? New vents,clean boiler, sized right, good even heat, new main vents.

gerry gill

how many degrees

are you trying to come up that you have to steam for 2 straight hours? that in itself doesn't sound right..

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ken_36

This homeowner turns t-stat to 65 at nite. At 6 am she goes to 70. Boiler runs fine for 1hr. Goes off on pressure settings 1/2 psi diff 1 1/2. After this long run is when the hort cycling starts. It will only be off for a few min. then on for a few more. It is going off on pressure.
Firing rate is set to load. Digital t-stat also new. System is small convectors and seems like vents are closing and steam has no where to go. But how can it run the 1 hr to start with without building pressure? If she turns t-stat down 1 degree cycle stops. Is there anything else that can be shutting down the steam distribution? This is a replacement boiler. Also fuel bills are higher than before with a large oversized boiler. This is a mystery?????

gerry gill

if your shutting off on pressure

and the convectors are all hot all the way across, the boiler and its pressure switch are doing what they were designed to do...but if the convectors are all hot, all the way across, the air vents shut, and you build up pressure you are not firing to the connected load, you are firing higher than the load..your making steam faster than it can condense..maybe you would be better served with stage firing the boiler..

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Boilerpro_3

Is stat set up for steam?

The internal settings will effect the cycle rate. If it is a typical stat, it is set for forced air from the factory and has to be adjusted for steam on site. I see short cylcing steam boilers all the time due to this problem, and people wonder why thier bills are high.

Boilerpro

ken_36

I do have the t-stst set for steam. I have been steadly downfiring the boiler. I think with the 1 hr. initial run time I'm getting close to underfiring. This is a 4 section New Yorker that has been downfired to a 3 section. I have spoken to the tech at N.Y. and feel we are where we need to be on a firing rate. The only problem that keeps coming to mind is these small convectors and the small capacity. But the mystery still remains -- How can the boiler run for 1 hr. and still heat all the convectors and not reach pressure but as soon as the first cycle is over it reaches pressure in a matter of minutes and will short cycle for up to 1 hr. and not satisfy t-stat. It only needs to come up 1 degree after initial long run. You would think the vents have to shutting down on the first run. But if t-stat is turned down 1 degree everything is fine. And during the day when it maintains set point the thing works fine.

Unknown

When the boiler shuts off after the hour that it's on, is it the t-stat or the pressurtrol that shuts off the boiler. The t-stat should be controling the cycles. If everything is proper you should never get to your diff pressure. Is your near-boiler-piping to manufacturer specs ? Do you have enough main venting and are the convectors balanced ? The reason why everything is fine after you turn the t-stat one degree is because you are removing the call for heat. Check your dip switch and/or raise the diff if all the variables are correct. Or get them a vaporstat and read "Lost art of steam heat" on how to set it.

Stan_7

Steam problem

I don't know if this is the right forum or that you answer questions from building tenants. Please let me know. The building is privately owned. Our building has 189 families and has 7 floors. The first floor is the basement or lobby level. having 29 apartments. The boiler is on this level. Here is the problem. I have been told there is an ouside sensor. The inside sensor is on the return. I don't know what that means. Not all apartments have no heat. 7th floor has most complaints. NYC law requires 68 degrees inside when less than 55 degrees outside. Apartment temperatures run 60 degrees or less. Building agent says management is within the law. How does the boiler know when apartment has reached 68 degrees? Where would I look to see the setting of 68 degrees?

Stan_7

Steam problem

I don't know if this is the right forum or that you answer questions from building tenants. Please let me know. The building is privately owned. Our building has 189 families and has 7 floors. The first floor is the basement or lobby level. having 29 apartments. The boiler is on this level. Here is the problem. I have been told there is an ouside sensor. The inside sensor is on the return. I don't know what that means. Not all apartments have no heat. 7th floor has most complaints. NYC law requires 68 degrees inside when less than 55 degrees outside. Apartment temperatures run 60 degrees or less. Building agent says management is within the law. How does the boiler know when apartment has reached 68 degrees? Where would I look to see the setting of 68 degrees?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Sounds like the air vents are not getting a chance to breathe and are staying closed after the first cycle.

Stan_7

steam problem

EBEBRATT-
Appreciate your prompt response.
Please exuse my complete lack of knowledge in this area.
Where are the air vents? What is the first cycle?

adayton_2

Pressure, 1/2 with 1 1/2 differential

sounds like your using a Pressuretrol for control. This lets the pressure get higher than necessary (1 1/2 PSI). On the first Hour cycle the air AND the steam are moving and condensing nicely because of initial cold system. After the hour is reached the radiators are now so HOT that condensation slows down and of course radiator vents are closed, BUT boiler is still pumping away 1/2 to 1 1/2 PSI steam. Consider changing to vaporstat 16 OZ. with operating steam from 5 OZ to 10 oz RANGE. You still gonna get some short cycle but fuel efficiency should get better and the length of short cycle before t-stat satisfy should be less.

This ASSumes radiators ARE at present all getting hot. For the 6th and 7th floors AND the 1st and second floors you might consider also installing TRVs (Thermostatic Radiator Valves. These will let you effectively "throttle' back SOME of the steam value on 1st and second floors and allow a bit more get to the 6th and 7th floors.

alfred

Stan_7

steam problem

Alfred-

Thanx for your response.