A Tree Hugger wall of shame

Mark Hunt

would it save them more?

The thread says 50% fuel savings.

How could we make it better?

Mark H

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=238&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

Cliff Brady

\"Furnace\" replaced with Tankless and HX

I haven't had the heart (or time) to post there to tell them what I really think, but aside from the obvious problems, this is the first time I have seen so much equipment stuck to a crumbling basement wall. I tried to attaceh the after picture but something failed. Others are welcome to try to attach the picture.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/cut_your_gas_co_1.php

Mark Hunt

Oh very nice

NOT!

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Steamhead (in transit)

It's all in how you handle the situation

This is a group of people who want to cut energy usage. Who better to help them than us? I just posted there (new users must be approved, will probably be up in 24 hours or so) inviting them to come to the Wall and to use Find a Professional. Once they see some of our install pics and know what's possible, I think it will be a mutually beneficial relationship.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

David Sutton_6

huh...

all that work and let use the old circulator again...

Ted_9

Is that pump station the one that Blueridge company sells?

Is this a: Homeowner+Internet= funny(but deadly) install

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

wise words, Frank

... here is a marketing opportunity; people screaming for more efficient equipment. That the luminaries here could do better than the above picture suggests is without question, so I hope that every FAP sponsor thanks you for laying a path for prospective customers to beat to them...

Steamhead (in transit)

Well, the TreeHugger webmaster approved my post

no replies to it as yet. Be ready to post some of your install pics, let's show what we can do. BTW, the one we have from their thread was taken before the job was finished. It might look better now.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

mark smith

obviously a homeowner job ...

don't get excited about sellin' stuff to them Greenies ...

they like the DIY look of that " System "

Steamhead (in transit)

Now now

these are potential customers. And I'll bet at least some of them will regard our installs as works of art. Especially when they save a lot of fuel.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

David Sutton_6

Nice Frank!

Very well put, you may have joined the bonds between treehuggers and pipehuggers.. david

ALH_4

Greenie

"Greenie" is becoming more associated with green cash than green leaves as fuel becomes more expensive. There definitely is the contingent of greenies that wants it cheap(underline cheap) and efficient....not possible in most situations unless vital corners are cut. How green is it when that equipment has to be replaced in a few years?

Do it well. Do it once.

-Andrew

Steamhead (in transit)

ALH, we find that everywhere

not just with conservationists. And the cheapies always get what they paid for.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

That Looky .....Different...*~/:)

well,er.....its There at least .:)i wouldnt cut the fingers off someone who did that to my materials buh i'd at least pull their fingernails out

mark smith

who wants ta be a "pipehugger" ....??

David Sutton_6

A joke, Mark

Wayco Wayne_2

At least they

want to save money and be more fuel efficient. It's funny I had only heard of people using these tankless heaters for heating but this past week got to see a system first hand. I was the 5th contractor called in to see if I could make it work right. Not a good sign. The system was a house of cards waiting to fail. It had 4 zones. The tankless heaters needed 3 zones running to have enough flow to initiate a flame, so it had to be cold enough out for at leat 3 of the 4 zones to be calling to heat. When all zones were operating they were terribly out of balance so there was a priority among zones as to who got the heat. When I tried to balance the zones by throttling the flow to the zones with the dissproportionate flow I started to go off on low flow and would trip the safety for overheating. Madness. The piping looked like crap too. I hope to talk them into a modcon boiler, but we will see. WW

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mitch_4

and the exhaust goes..

where? I see an elbow then the house.

This one o dem thar newfangled ventless units? or is it incomplete?

Ron Schroeder

Mitch

I think there waiting on an adapter to hook it to the gas supply

S Ebels

Wayne

The only rational and relatively foolproof way to use a tankless as a heat source is to dump it into a buffer tank. Run the tank temp with an aquastat or tekmar setpoint control and set up a loop through the tankless with enough flow to get it to fire reliably. Use whatever control strategy you want on the system side of the buffer.

Unknown

For one thing

The whole mess could be relocated to a more sturdy , non-crumbling wall . It won't add to the fuel saving , but it will prolong the life of the equipment .

Which is a savings , nonetheless .

ALH_4

Free Energy

My post doesn't really read like I meant it to. My main point was that "green" is going mainstream as fuel prices increase. Alternative energy just is not inexpensive. Energy from the sun is not even close to free, and it depends on so many variables to make the equipment pay for itself. There are those who think they can get into alternative energy or high-efficiency equipment for a minimal investment. There are also many who are willing to pay for good equipment because they realize its benefits. I should have been more fair in my statement. It does sound as if these people are completely unaware that they do not have an appropriate appliance for their application. Hopefully a few will follow your link to this site and read up on what's out there.

-Andrew

adayton_2

Esthetics and

ease of maintenance certainly count towards long term serviceability and HO satisfaction. What HUGE cost is a bag of mortar ($35.00) OR a 8 X 4 foot 3/4 inch exterrior plywood ($85.00) to create a "canvas" on which to display ones work of art (even a DIY).

Alfred

Wayco Wayne_2

Thanks Steve

I was considering going to a primary secondary setup but I was unsure as to why the tankless heaters were tripping the safety. I imagined they are used to seeing 50 to 60 degree water at the inlet and in this application they were seeing much higher. I measured a 30 degree delta so at 170 discharge the return temp was 140. When the tankless then went off on safety it would shut off the pilot causing a nuisance for the homeowner. Momma mia. I would hate to inflict the expense of a repipe and a buffer tank only to have it not work any better. Forgive me for saying so, but by the size of the house and the German made cars in the driveway they can probably afford to upgrade to a system that will give them top efficiency and no problems.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Aethestetics aside...

... the system could have been laid out better and dedicated strainer systems + George's hydrosolv + maintainer would do a lot more towards preserving the system performance than the the flat plate HX they put in there. With hydrosolv you get the gunk out, the next layer of fluid passivates the thing, end of story. Strainers are a lot easier to clean than a HX, and as best as I can tell, they moved the problem from clogging the boiler HX to clogging the system HX.

I also agree that mounting the whole thing on a sheet of plywood would have made their lives a bit easier, the installation cleaner, etc. Perhaps then the components could then be laid out without resorting to the use of a lot of "jumper-cable" connections.

Dennis

Unfair !

You took the picture before the painter sprayed everything white. After the paint, the carpenters would have put up the walls of the new mechanical room, then everything would look great. With the addition of a beer mister and pool table purchased with the 50% savings in fuel, everthing would have been alright!

Meenies!

Plumdog_2

Counting the chickens before they hatch

I believe the proud owner said he paid high 4 figures for that beauty; it's over 90% efficient and will pay for itself in 2-3 years. I guess if you believe strongly in something then it will happen. Roll up anotherone, just like the otherone..............