What ever happened to the $6000 Boiler Change-Out..??

clammy

Ain't that the truth no one wants to spend any money on any thing that the guy next door isn't going to droll over .There your engery conversationist driving a hum vee .At least they all have there priorities in the right place but i just wonder how they go to the can with it up there .hang in there there allways a bunch of losers in every pontenial crowd of custermers peace and good luck clammy for 3 grand i'll watch cartoons

mark smith

we swap a lot of larger steam and how water boilers, EG, EGH, 86's 1088, etc ......

after loosing quite a string of these kinda change-outs, i have to wonder ..

I guess the New Market Dynamic......
...is to slam it in for a couple thou Labour, Overhead, and Profit .....

i hope i get to service a few of these, when they don't work for crap .....

Ted_9

I still have people asking about $3000.00 change outs. I just say good bye.

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R. Kalia_8

Yeah, it's amazing how some people prefer a lower quote rather than a higher quote. The nerve! Good thing the govt doesn't work that way.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

At least the government sets very specific requirements to include engineering, materials, company standards, wages, insurance, etc., etc., etc., etc.,. Work is inspected for compliance and payment is withheld until any defficiencies are corrected. There are rewards for unexpected rapid work and penalties for unnecessarily tardiness.

I won't say it always works perfectly, but it usually works reasonably.

Individual consumers lack the vast resources of government. They often blindly choose the low bidder. But since they're often unable to differentiate between "low", "cheap", "quality" and "inferior" they often get stuck with cheap, inferior work at a low price.

Codes and licensing are supposed to ensure that all work is at least "safe". Sorry to say, but such is also frequently used as protectionism. Consumers know this and they sometimes gamble. Fortunately they usually just loose their $$, not their lives...

R. Kalia_8

Unfortunately, paying a higher price is no protection; individuals don't have the resources of the govt so they still get shoddy work. At least with a low price they've paid less for it.

Wayco Wayne_2

All sad but true

I get most of my jobs through word of mouth. Some people are starved for value but don't know where to find it. Other folks just want to get by with just enough. I try to make availible a good, better, best set of choices, but crap is crap and it's available for approprite prices. WW

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Jim_67

Jim_67

Jim_67

Jim_67

Jim_67

DSC00003

ChasMan

I think shoddy has become the norm. More frustrating to me is.. What do you want that for? Or, Oh this wll last a while still.. I mean, if you drove a 06 Mercedes SL and went into the BMW dealership, do you think you would hear that your old car will last a while? I have yet to find someone interested in my little job.. Might have to attempt it myself this summer.

Dennis

$3000 boilers

I tell the $3000 is going to be the monthly bill in a few years if the don't go for high efficiency, and proper sizing.

Robert O'Connor_12

Alive and well

Around these parts the utility has been cleaning up. The average install of a 150,000Btu steamer is almost $8,000 (by them). Anytime I bid a job against them I usually get it, he he he .

Robert O'Connor/NJ

REF

Cheap

Dear Mark,

Keep your chin up. As professional companies we must show the value of our products and services. It is our responsability to inform the customers of why we are more or even less than the under qualified, unlicensed, uninsured, etc. etc. etc.. Our company invests a lot of time and money into our proposals with very good closing ratios. I do run into those who only shop price, and frankly that is what they get. We concentrate on customers who have the same priorities that we have.

Never sacrifice quality.

Very Respectfully,
RE Fox

B. Tice

Mark

Are you in New York? Sounds like it! The market has gone down hill so fast, it isn't funny.......

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Paul Pollets

Why???

All these complaints about low pricing....always has been, always will be. If "everyone" is selling low it means that price has overcome features and benefits. If the competition has low selling skills, somebody is going to have a field day when they can explain to the customer why high efficiency equipment is the preferred choice. Oil futures in Sept. were selling at $100./barrel. Does this mean anything to heating guys or consumers?

When a customer tells me he (she) wants it cheap...I hand them a box of 24 Bic lighters. (Only kidding) I make sure I've qualified the range of costs over the phone before spending time chasing a lead that will never close. Charging for a site visit/proposal is the other saving grace. It will eliminate most of the TK's (tire kickers) and enhance the professional approach of providing comfort.





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Dave Ewald

So What's the Deal?

It sure is easy to determine that paying $3000 is better than paying $6000. Sometimes you need to explain why you charge more. A bid form stating that you are licensed and insured is a start. You could expand that to include things like heat loss calculation, repiping to boiler manufacturer's specifications, boiler cleaning, disposal of old boiler, guarantees, etc. Giving an itemized account of how you decided what you would charge (you have to calculate this for yourself, anyway) would at least give the customer a basis to compare your bid with the other guy's. I can't assume that the high bidder will be better just because his price is higher.

Jim_65

Paul

Do you have a set price to go out on any site visit or do you have different price ranges?

We have had numerous discussions about this very thing. I spend a lot of time designing a system and generating a proposal for someone to say "Thanks but I was told by a friend that it should only cost $XXXX. and that is all that I budgeted".

We try to qualify prior to an initial site visit but some folks either think that you gave a higher ballpark and think you will come in cheaper or they were told to get three bids knowing going in yours will be the higher one.

Jeff Lawrence_25

Low Pricing?

A couple of years ago, I gave a price for a boiler replacement in a gent's home. His response to the cost of a high efficiency boiler was something like "You gotta be kidding." When I gave him the price on a cast iron boiler, he asked me where the 'extra money' was coming from. He then said he could buy that brand boiler off the internet for slightly less than half waht I was charging.

I explained that I had insurance and drew a salary from the business. The amazing thing was that he's a paid fireman that works 24 on/48 off and had his own car repair 'business(?)' on the side.

Go figure.

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Paul Pollets

Jim...

I have a base fee of $129.00 to $189.00 to do the site visit. I waive the fee if I'm dealing with a previous client, of course. The traffic in Seattle is now horrendous and the small fees cover the time...sort of.

More importantly, it established the fact that a professional is involved...and professionals charge fees...they don't give it away.

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Jim_65

Thanks Paul!

What you stated is dead on.

Like I said Mark, Tom and I have had numerous discussions on this topic and we feel that once a professional such as ourselves is involved then some type of charge should be applied. Sometimes I feel like the educator to the homeowner and I will be the first to try to educate the HO as to what is involved. But for others to follow my lead and come in and shake their head as "Oh yeah we can do that" can be discouraging.

Traffic is always increasing here too and even the small base fee would potentially cover the initial site visit. The days of the free site visits & free estimate are coming to an end.

Thanks again!

Paul Pollets

and...

if you offer to rebate the cost of the site visit to the client if you get the job, the customer will have incentive. They'll also return calls on the follow up because they already spent some money with you.

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Jim_65

Excellent idea and great incentive! Nothing like working with folks who are serious about doing it correctly and not the lookey loos or TK's.

Thanks!

adayton_2

Internet Pricing

cost me a job ONCE. On a $16,024 quoted price for a large network server room batter back UPS device. The IT guy that sought the quote saw no problem, the Boss (company president) came by saying he could purchase that device on the Internet for $16,012, so why should he pay me $12.00 more?????? ROFLMAO, I said because you get me and withdrew my offer and left..lol

Alfred

Paul Pollets

Sharing job cost data

could cost you more than the job..the owner could easily share the info with your competitors'. Owners show me the "other" bids all the time. I presume mine get shown as well. My price is my price. The selling price is carefully calculated with all factors including overhead, materials and labor costs. That data is my business, and only my business. The customer gets the comprehensive proposal with a lump sum flat rate and/or alternates. He gets a professional presentation and can make a decision on what he really wants in a contractor. I make sure the bid and presentation are what the owner is looking for, often with lower cost alternates.

It's been said by every sales guru..."The price is not everything..."

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Robert O'Brien

This is what a $2700 replacement looks like

Was here today and had to ask if a "pro" did this and how much they paid.Answer,yes a "pro", price was $2700. Columbia boiler with Riello. No Backflow,Low water cutoff, mixing valve,draft regulator,no test hole,burner damper not wired,reused 2 R89A,T-T on L8124 jumped so it functions a limit only,lovely wiring and piping job and I was standing in front of old boiler when I took pic. BTW this was installed last March

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Mad Dog_2

Went the way of 1.89 gas and

99 cent egg sandwich. Mad DOg

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Robert O'Brien

This is what a $2700 replacement looks like

Was here today and asked Customer if a "Pro" installed this and how much they paid.Answer?$2700 and a "Pro" No draft regulator,Backflow,Low water cutoff,mixing valve,domestic relief,reused 2 R89 relays,T-T jumped out on L8124,Nice piping and wiring,a few leaks and the old boiler was just to the right of pic just to name a few problems.That's how it's done for 3K.BTW this was installed in March 2005 believe it or not

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mark smith

Ny ......**** .....

Mad Dog_2

The sad part is.................................................

They don't even know that they are in negative digits. Profit????? what's that? The problem in our area is a never-ending revolving door of both union and non-union guys "givin' it a shot" (at business). They come on the scene like gangbusters, low ball everyone including themselves, wreaking havoc on the industry, and then packing it in after a year or two. If one does not break this vicious cycle within the first year of business, one will continue to hurt himself and the industry. I have heard many a successful P & H contractor say that if you still have ALL the same customers from when you first started, you are not charging what you you need to - I have found this to be very true. As for the recipients of these cheap swapouts: They can pay now.....or pay you later
Mad Dog

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Mad Dog_2

The sad part is.................................................

They don't even know that they are in negative digits. Profit????? what's that? The problem in our area is a never-ending revolving door of both union and non-union guys "givin' it a shot" (at business). They come on the scene like gangbusters, low ball everyone including themselves, wreaking havoc on the industry, and then packing it in after a year or two. If one does not break this vicious cycle within the first year of business, one will continue to hurt himself and the industry. I have heard many a successful P & H contractor say that if you still have ALL the same customers from when you first started, you are not charging what you you need to - I have found this to be very true. As for the recipients of these cheap swapouts: They can pay now.....or pay you later
Mad Dog

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Don \"Grumpy\" Walsh

pricing info

Has anyone else noticed that architects are now requesting separate pricing for Labor and for Materials? It might be a local thing, but I have refused to comply with that stupid request and offer only lump sum totals. I have had several architects balk, but I have yet to lose a job because of it. I figure that it is none of ther business how I arrive at a price, and I also feel that they are laying the ground work for a nasty scenario in the future. If they can get "Labor" quotes, how long will it be before THEY start buying the equipment and "selling" the labor to those gullible enough to take the job?