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Job Bidding

Dennis
Dennis Member Posts: 101
> Last week I submitted a bid for a steam boiler <BR>
> replacement in a 16 family building. I included <BR>
> in my proposal: 1) a full heat loss calculation <BR>
> to match the boiler to the connected load. 2) a <BR>
> reworked header since the existing one lacks <BR>
> enough "A" dimension I was told to bid the job <BR>
> based on 600,000 btu input, since the old rating <BR>
> plate was missing.(subject to the heat loss <BR>
> calc) Today I got a call from the management <BR>
> telling me that my competition is ofering an <BR>
> 800,000 btu boiler for less money than me. I <BR>
> hope the management listened to my schpiel about <BR>
> boiler oversizing before letting some malaka <BR>
> convince them it should about who can offer the <BR>
> biggest boiler. <BR>
<BR>
Just do it, right.

Comments

  • bovide_4
    bovide_4 Member Posts: 161


    Last week I submitted a bid for a steam boiler replacement in a 16 family building. I included in my proposal:
    1) a full heat loss calculation to match the boiler to the connected load.
    2) a reworked header since the existing one lacks enough "A" dimension
    I was told to bid the job based on 600,000 btu input, since the old rating plate was missing.(subject to the heat loss calc)
    Today I got a call from the management telling me that my competition is ofering an 800,000 btu boiler for less money than me.
    I hope the management listened to my schpiel about boiler oversizing before letting some malaka convince them it should about who can offer the biggest boiler.
  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


  • mark  smith
    mark smith Member Posts: 112


    sounds like you wasted waaay too much time, on a customer who doesn't care

    i hope you can educate them to see why You are correct
  • mark  smith
    mark smith Member Posts: 112


    Steam .....Bruce
  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
    bre

    Den eiksera pos eisai Ellinas. Po po den drepese me tetia loyia, koulopedo.

    Cosmo Valavanis

    Dependable P.H.C. Inc.
  • Boiler Guy
    Boiler Guy Member Posts: 585
    Yeah Cosmo

    I had one of those once .... but the wheels fell of
  • Dick_3
    Dick_3 Member Posts: 60


    Are you sure your customer isn't "working you" so you'll lower your pricing? Ask them to fax over your competition's quote.

    Sometimes it's better not to state the BTU's/HR and state capacity is matched to the connect load.

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  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998
    Got Ya Mark

    I was half asleep not comprahending what the old eyes waere reading
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
    Indeed

    That's exactly what that person is, a malaka. Walk away and erase them from your memory banks.

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Before you go


    ask them if it doesn't seem odd that someone is offering more for less. Ask them if it is possible that the other guy is making a HUGE mistake that will actually end up costing them more in the long run.

    Give them 30 seconds to answer, then leave.

    Be sure to dust your shoes off after.

    Mark H

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  • Cosmo_3
    Cosmo_3 Member Posts: 845
    but seriously

    Maybe you can give them a copy of any steam boilers I&O manual, they usually show how the boiler must be sized to the radiation. Spend some time with them, if you think that all they need is to be re-assured that you know what you are talking about. Maybe lend them one of Dan's steam books. Sometimes the customer is just uneducated.

    But if the whole, "but I can get a million btu boiler from the other guy for less than your little boiler" keeps coming back, then you might as well just fire them as a customer. You can call him a skatofatsa on the way to your truck........


    Cosmo Valavanis

    Dependable P.H.C. Inc.
  • Glen
    Glen Member Posts: 855
    price vs value

    which have you concentrated on? I too have been beat up on "but I can buy it cheaper and bigger next door". It's part of the business we enjoy - and unlike poker - the lowest hand wins. Unless you offer value added.
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    Doin' the dance.

    By this point, anyone of us here should be able to SWAG a project before any time is spent at the computer. If you know what ballpark the project will be in, tell them. If it gets 'em nuts or they say the other guy is thousands less, look them square in the eye and say "SO?". You can tell pretty quick whether someone is serious. SWAGs are free, quotes involve design work and that isn't.

    When it comes to doin' the dance, I generally like to lead.

    hb

    www.climatecadvanced.com
    heatboy



    The Radiant Whisperer





    "The laws of physics will outweigh the laws of ecomomics every time."
  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 882
    That is very good news!!

    The fact that they called you back is very good news. If they didn't want to go with you, you never would have received a phone call. They would have signed the contract with the other guy. They aren't heating contractors. They don't know smaller is better. You need to show them the value. Noone buys at a higher price unless they see more value in it. You have to explain that a good installation is not about who has a bigger boiler. It is about who has a boiler best sized to your application. A smaller properly sized boiler is going to save them money in fuel bills. A oversized boiler will short cycle a lot.

    You have to talk to them about proper boiler near piping. The price is higher because there is a lot of work in repiping the header. By the way that bigger boiler needs a bigger header then your boiler. Show them the required header size for a 800,000 btu boiler. Then ask what size header were the other contractor going to put in. Fax them the manufacterers specs. What is the other plumbers price with the proper size header? The other contractor will most likely back out at that time once he realizes there is no profit in it for him. If the job is piped wrong that could void the warrentee of the boiler. If they don't repipe the header then they are going to have a lot of wet steam traveling up into the steam mains. This can cause banging. This could cause problems getting the condensate back to the boiler and cause problems to the steam vents. They might have to go around changing vents constantly.

    John Ruhnke

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    I am the walking Deadman
    Hydronics Designer
    Hydronics is the most comfortable and energy efficient HVAC system.
  • Frank M Alleva
    Frank M Alleva Member Posts: 20


    Sounds like you put a lot of time into your proposal.As a rule of thumb we NEVER give the customer the heat loss or other engineering drawings until we have a signature and a deposit...that is unless they want to pay for them.
  • Dennis
    Dennis Member Posts: 101
    Open here for the secret code, it will change your life!

    B.I.D. means Beat Idiots Deal.
    Just do it, right.
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Not dancin'


    standing on my puter clapping!

    Someone had to say it.

    Thanks HB.

    Mark H

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  • Ken C.
    Ken C. Member Posts: 267
    What does SWAG stand for?

  • Larry Savino
    Larry Savino Member Posts: 63


    We deal with this on a daily basis, I have found most buyers dont really want to go with the lowest bidder, they really need to be educated on why our price is higher.

    You know normally when some one mentions that they have a "cheaper price" I explain they will always find "cheaper" but if they are looking for the best value for there heating systems replacement for sure I am proposing to them the best value they are going to find,

    I then go about explaining what we do differently then what may have been proposed to them. I tell them my story and my companies story, I ell them all the things we do and why its a benefit to them.I suggest they get some references from the companies they are getting quotes from on a similar project.

    I take the time to explain that shopping for a new HVAC system in there home or business is not like shopping for a car at a car dealership,Your just not purchasing a product. Your purchasing the skill and knowledge of the dealer installing the new HVAC system. I explain our warrenties,I explain our hour of operation and our 24 hour service 7 days a week. I we dont take the time to explain to the customer why our price is a better value then the customer will never know and just go by what the low bidder told them " the other companies more money because there just lining there pockets with profits" I am very passionate about this topic as a lot of our salesmen will just go out and quote a price and then there done,I will follow up with the customer a couple days later and the customer will say " well I found a cheaper price" If I am lucky I am able to tell them my story,they listen with interest. And I will end up with another customer for life.

    I also never throw stones at my competitors, I will always say,I wont throw stones at my competitors But i would suggest you call the department of consumer affairs (and I hand them a paper with the phone numbers of our local department of consumer affair and licencing bureau) and see how many complaints the company has against them. I also use that time to educate the customer about using a licenced company.

    I could go on for hours on this subject but i wont

    The most important part is to educate your customer about why your a better value.If you dont they just assume the other company is the same as you.

    Good luck I would suggest calling that customer back and getting that job. I always think "who is better to do the job then me"
  • bovide_4
    bovide_4 Member Posts: 161
    Yiasou bre Cosmo

    I have twin girls about to arrive in 1-2 weeks. Soon instead of kolopedo I should be called koloyiero...
  • Dennis
    Dennis Member Posts: 101
    Education is fine and I do that, but try this, and have some fun

    I give them my price, I do not tell them any specifics just the price.
    I say "we can replace your system for $7500" the folks looking for a good job want to know the specifics.
    The folks looking for price will say "No that is way to much, the other guy can do it for $2300". My reply is "What is more important price or a quality installation?"
    The customer says "The price is very important!"
    I say "Oh, then we can do it for $2000."

    Works just about everytime.
    Just do it, right.
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