Ceiling Hot Water Radiant System???

Tom_35

Foley Mechanical is in your area and listed in the Find A Pro from this site.

First class company---

Tom Atchley

Bill C.

Ceiling hot water radiant system??

I recently moved into a house built in 1958, and it has a ceiling hot water radiant heating system. I had never heard of such a thing before, but it seems to work OK and I have talked to a couple of people who had them and they say that they were effective and weren't too inefficient. Heat source is an oil burner.

The previous owner was a widow, and she and her husband were the original owners. She didn't know much about the system except the fact that it was there. She could tell me nothing about the maintennence or any other aspect of it.

I have the original plans that show where the pips in the ceiling are supposed to run. Just for curiosity I have dug through the insulation in the attic and found a sandy-type surface but no exposed pipe so I am assuming that the pipe is buried in the ceiling plaster. There is no metal foil beneath the insulation, which I expected to find.

How long are these things supposed to last? What maintenence is required? And does anybody know any contractor in the Washington, DC area with specific knowledge of these systems? How thick is the plaster that the pipes are imbedded in? Is there anything I can do to make the system more efficient?

While I'm at it, I should mention that the basement system is a buried floor-radient system that seems to work OK. During Dec, Jan, and Feb the whole system eats up about 150 gals of fuel oil. Hot water is gas, so that's separate. Any info anyone can provide on the basement system would be appreciated, as well.

And does anyone know where I can get some magnetic covers for the ceiling vents for my air conditioning?

Many thanks for all help. -Bill C

GMcD

Ceiling radiant

The radiant piping is imbedded inside the plaster and is likely copper tubing. As long as the boiler water treatment is kept up to snuff, that type of system should last as long as the house. I am doing a renovation in a 1948 vintage university lab building and it has a copper tube in a plaster ceiling system that was still operational until the lab reno required it being taken down. The rest of the building still has the radiant ceilings and they are working fine. The plaster ceiling thickness at my project was approximately 1-1/2" thick so it wasn't a high mass system. The improvements that can be made to a system like this are to replace the insulation on top of the ceiling with the thicker and slightly heaview foil faced insulation batts, and any improvements to the house envelope (windows)to reduce the heat losses will help keep energy bills down. Then look at higher effciency burners/boiler with modulating controls.

Unless physical damage occurs to the radiant tubing in the plaster, it should last quite a bit longer without any worries.

Bill C.

Thanks, Geoff

Geoff-- Thanks for your informative reply. One phrase that has me concerned, however, is when you mentioned "boiler water treatment." I'm completely new to oil heat (grew up with gas forced air and learned a bit about that) and the only thing the tech from the heating oil company would tell me is "Call us if you have any problems."

The water in these parts is pretty soft, but is there some kind of water treatment I should be doing for the boiler? Any good texts you're aware of like, "Oil Heat Basics for Homeowners?"

Many thanks for all help. -Bill C

Gordy

Ceiling Radiant

Just thought I would chime in. I'm a fellow ceiling radiant homeowner also circa 1952. You will love it!

Don't let anyone give you the notion its not efficient because heat rises. Hot air rises.

Heres a little cut away view of my ceiling, doing some kitchen remodeling.

Gordy

GMcD

Boiler water treatment

I'm a large institutional/commercial designer, so take my comments from that side of the industry- boiler water treatment usually consists of a charge of oxygen inhibitors, anti-oxidants, and other stabilizing chemicals that prevent the boier water from getting too acidic or too basic, which could eat out the insides of the pipes. Now, a boiler water system is a closed loop system which means that once it's filled with water and pressurized, as long as there are no leaks, the same water that was put in the pipes when they started it up 50 years ago should theoretically be still inside the pipes. Over time, crud from the iside of the pipes builds up in low points, and the chemical balance of the boiler water can change. It's usually a good idea to flush the system and check/change/update the chemical treatment for the boiler water avery few years. Like flushing the radiator and cooling system in your car engine.

George_10

You can read about our cleaner and treatment products

on our web site www.rhomarwater.com. Both products are specific for hydronic heating systems.

I second the suggestion to call Foley for servicing your system. He runs a quality company in your neck of the woods.

Cleaning and treating a system will help to keep the efficiency up and the heating bill as low as it can be with your current boiler.

Bill C.

Thanks for the picture

Gordy-- Thanks for the pic! Very informative. That gray material that the pipes go into at the edge of the cutaway looks exactly like what I saw from my attic.

Since you are doing remodeling, you might have a special handle on this next question. I would like to put in some ceiling fans in the living room, which has no ceiling light and thus no box access, though other rooms do have ceiling lights. I am deathly afraid to try to cut through that plaster with the pipes imbedded in it. How tough of a job is that? Any special caveats or advice?

Many thanks. -Bill C.

Gordy

Bill

First that is a type of rock lathe made by celotex, sugar cane byproduct according to Mike T.Swampest I have not found much info. on it myself.

I to installed ceiling fixtures in my home. Go to radio shack and get a 50.00 infra red thermometer. Accuracy is not important you are looking for temperature differences. Take it across the ceiling scanning about an inch away it will read highest temp where the pipes are. They are probably 6" on center, just enough room for a ceiling fixture box or a 4" can light.

once you have located your piping. Start at the center mark between pipes and " gingerly" chisle a starter hole in the plaster working your way out to the perimeter of your template mark for your fixture box. Then you will have to cut a hole in the rock lathe. Its a messy job. I did use my roto zip with a plaster bit. Once I got the first one in, and was comfortable locating the pipes. Roto zip now has an attatchment that a vacum hooks up to, and catches the dust works sweet.


Remember " DO NOT HIT THE PIPES". Chanting this while performing the task worked for me. Good luck