Steam Heat Radiator won't Heat even with Valve off

P Davis

Ryan, the boiler is the same capacity as the old one -- 140,000 BTU's. The old boiler worked ok even with the pipes not insulated, the basement was not overly warm and our heating bills were actually on the low side because the pipes help to keep the flooring above (1st floor); i.e., indirect heat. The boiler was becoming old (40+) and we decided to replace it in September.

We don't have steam to 2nd floor (attic), but kept the 140,000 BTU's size in case we wanted to do that in the future.

We had done some testing of the single cycle and 3 cycle on the thermostat (the heating company never gave us any hints about the settings). We are currently using single cycle and it appears to be doing ok yesterday and today.

Gerry, we have attached a picture of the new boiler.

Update: yesterday I talked with someone who owns several apartment buildings that have steam heat (through a friend of my wife) and he shared with me that I ought to get all new adjustable vents, including two fast vents for the problem radiators.

He also recommended draining the boiler of all the water while it is cold. I'm going to also try that.

I'm going to heed the advice I read elsewhere on this site and buy the vents at a plumbing supply and not at Home Depot.

P Davis

Steam Heat Radiator won't Heat even with Valve Off

A new steam boiler was installed in September, since then one radiator won't heat even with the valve off. The radiator is on its own line for steam and condensation (return. It was originally installed this way 35+ years ago and has always work very well in the past. This radiator has a 30' run with 7 turns, pipe is 2". Pipe gets hot (under the floor)usually up to the pipe that leads to the radiator and stops. The radiator does not get hot, even even with the vent off.

Size is 37" tall, 9" wide, 32" long with 13 rings. Line is not insulated, but none of the pipes have ever been insulated that we know of.

All the other radiators heat very well, though one only heats with the vent off at the end of a 4-radiator run.

Boiler is a New Yorker, 140,000 BTU with a total of 7 radiators on the system.

will smith_4

Give us more info-

When you say "with the valve off", which valve? Could there be a restriction at the valve before the rad? What type of valve do you have at the inlet? If it's two pipe (you mentioned a return line), can you see a trap, or could there be one hiding on you?

P Davis

Steam Heat Radiator won't Heat even with Valve off

Thanks for your reply Will.

The "valve" is the steam vent at the end of the radiator (they call it a valve on the box, so I used that term).

I don't think there is a restriction before the radiator.

No traps -- it's a one pipe system.

Yesterday, I changed the thermostat from 1 cycle per hour to 3 cycles per hour. Would that make a difference? Now the radiator is heating with no air vent.

The instructions on the thermostat call for 1 cycle per hour for steam heat -- could that be wrong? A 3 was for electronic ignition (which we now have).

Even tho the boiler is new from this fall, we can't get a rep out (the technician they sent out was clueless), because they are prioritizing customers with no heat (we're in the Chicagoland area).

Rodney Summers

It sounds like...

the people that installed the boiler may have been a bit clueless as well.

You're wasting a phenomenal amount of money with all of that uninsulated piping. I'll bet your basement and/or crawlspace is hotter than an inferno.

With 7 radiators, I'd almost bet a dime to a dollar that the boiler is oversized for the job as well. Well, okay, it WOULD be if your pipes were insulated.

No heat with one cycle/hr vs heat with 3 doesn't make a great deal of sense at first, because the longer fire time *SHOULD* distribute more steam to the system if there are problems. I would posit that losses from heating up all of those uninsulated pipes hot after they cool off for a whole hour are greater than the systems ability to generate enough steam in that time to heat both the pipes and the radiator. By increasing the overall inefficiency of the system and keeping those pipes hot all the time with steam (instead of residual heat that would be saved with insulation), with 3 cycles you're able to get some steam that far. Phew.

Do a little test: Set it to a single cycle for awhile. Then go to the three. I'll bet you don't get any heat until the second or third of the three shorter cycles.

Now, I could be blowing steam, so hopefully a real pro will weigh in on this. Good luck.

EDIT: Did some quick math. You have roughly 19sqft of surface to heat on the pipe, about the same as a 5 element 2 column 38" tall radiator. Insulate that pipe, and the others.

don_52

rads not getting hot...

Mr. Davis,

Agree with what others have already said;
here' a link to an article elsewhere on the site;

http://www.heatinghelp.com/steam_radiatormakessound.cfm

Interesting to note is the second paragraph, if the guts
of the valve come apart it's like putting a "stopper" in
a bottle.

HTH and Happy Steaming, db

gerry gill

how about a picture

of the new boiler and its piping..you may have wet steam..is this pipe going to the affected radiator counterflow or parrallel flow? you should always insulate steam pipes..your wasteing money by not insulating..

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Steamhead (in transit)

That boiler is not piped correctly

First off they used copper for steam piping, second there is no header to separate water from steam. They should have left the boiler's instruction book with you, if not you can probably download it. This has a piping diagram which must be followed if the boiler and system are to work well. Unfortunately many installers use the instructions for knee pads.

Call them back and tell them to repipe it, correctly, using black steel pipe.

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will smith_4

Can we

Get some views of all four sides?

will smith_4

Steamhead-

Do you see a spot for the low water cutoff and feeder in this pic? And is what looks like a wet return pitched away? I don't see an equalizer.Or do I? Do you? Yowzah!

darren_4

now that's what i call a push -pull!!!

Ryan_10

While I understand...

that you might like all of that radiant heat coming from the pipes, this is not how a steam system is designed to work. Some genius probably decided it was a good idea to tear off all that old asbestos sometime. Just buy some R-13, cut it down if needed, wrap it around the pipes and use some high temp foil tape. It's a cheap solution and will work, more or less. Or buy the real stuff. Your dime and time.

I just moved into a "new" house with a fresh boiler and had some of the problems you have that Steamhead pointed out. He helped me out with my venting situation a lot. My boiler was similarly installed by a lazy dimwit who did it in copper, no drop header, a return sloped the wrong way, inadequate venting, didn't reinsulate anything replaced, etc. These people did the job three years ago for a different person, and if I could force them to fix the fiasco, I would. You still can. I'm stuck with mine, and fixing it isn't worth it because whoever buys this house in a couple years will undoubtedly not know or care--I'm an obsessive nut.

Why are you going to drain ALL of the water? Fresh water is hard on a boiler. Drain the sludge with the spigot and drain the sight glass as well, and skim it if necessary, but that should have been done on install.

Buying all new vents for the radiators is unnecessary unless they are inadequate. Map out your system per information on this site.

rob brown

pvc?

mr. davis, is that pvc on the relief valve drop? never saw that before and certianly dont like the idea. probobly the least worrysome of your piping problems tho. you really need to have that guy repipe to mfg. specs. rob