Piping in an Ergomax tank as a buffer

Dave_61

all zone pumps come off a capped supply header. They all have inline flowcheck valves. The returns come back to the system in another capped header. Would this work in the buffer tank situation shown by John S?

Dave_61

Piping in an Ergomax tank as a buffer

We are trying to add some volume to our copper tube system by piping in a buffer tank. We are going to go with an Ergomax E65 reverse indirect with the idea that we could use it to prehaet our hot water. Someone was very kind to explain the piping to me, and I was wondering if it looks like I have everything right, or if I need to add anything before we do this.
Currently, supply and return headers are capped. All zone pumps, including the one to the Phase III, come off the supply header.
All zones return to the return header. We would not be changing these at all....simply tying into the tank. All bold lines are 2" black pipe. All others are 1.5" black pipe.
Thanks so much.
Dave

hr

I'd rather not

see the tank in series with the boiler like that. While it will act as a buffer, it could extend the "cold return" period. As now the boiler has the loads and the tank volume to get above condensing temperature.

When all loads call it could drop the tank temperature so the DHW side will not supply hot water, also.

This link has a method I prefer. Cost's you some more pump and control wiring but... It allows better control of the boiler temperatures, as well as a better hydraulic disconnect from the boiler.

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,78589,00.html

hot rod

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Dave_61

Hot Rod,

I've also seen that article, and I understand your concerns.
When I showed that article to my plumber, he had thought that there might be an issue with my copper tube boiler still being unable to get enough water/flow with the buffer tank as a separate loop, something about mismatch of the pump flow in the boiler loop nd buffer loop..
We were going to set buffer tank to hold water temp at 180 and call fro heat when it hit 150, so i would think that condensation probably wouldn't occur.
Also, the Ergomax could be piped into my DHW supply to preheat the DHW if we had an issue with not enough DHW, though my Phase III seems to have an almost magical capacity to recharge itself, even with 150 degree water.

Dave_61

Hot Rod,

I've also seen that article, and I understand your concerns.
When I showed that article to my plumber, he had thought that there might be an issue with my copper tube boiler still being unable to get enough water/flow with the buffer tank as a separate loop, something about mismatch of the pump flow in the boiler loop and buffer loop.
We were going to set buffer tank to hold water temp at 180 and call fro heat when it hit 150, so i would think that condensation probably wouldn't occur.
Also, the Ergomax could be piped into my DHW supply to preheat the DHW if we had an issue with not enough DHW, though my Phase III seems to have an almost magical capacity to recharge itself, even with 150 degree water.

hr

Buy your plumber

a book on primary secondary piping.

Dan has an excellent one available here in "Books and More"

Once he understands the concept of PS piping he will be clear on different pumps working together in harmony

hot rod

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Dave_61

Hot Rod,

If we did go with the system you have pictured by John Siegenthaler, where they show the high temp zones with zone valves at the upper right of the phote, I instead have 5 circulating pumps. Would there be any issue with that?
Also, what size zone pump would you use for the buffer circulator? We would be using a 0010 for the boiler.

hr

If you pull the zone circs from a primary loop, with check prote

> If we did go with the system you have pictured by

> John Siegenthaler, where they show the high temp

> zones with zone valves at the upper right of the

> phote, I instead have 5 circulating pumps. Would

> there be any issue with that? Also, what size

> zone pump would you use for the buffer

> circulator? We would be using a 0010 for the

> boiler.





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hr

If you pull the zone circs from a primary loop, with check prote

> If we did go with the system you have pictured by

> John Siegenthaler, where they show the high temp

> zones with zone valves at the upper right of the

> phote, I instead have 5 circulating pumps. Would

> there be any issue with that? Also, what size

> zone pump would you use for the buffer

> circulator? We would be using a 0010 for the

> boiler.





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hr

If you pull the zone circs from a primary loop, with check prote

> If we did go with the system you have pictured by

> John Siegenthaler, where they show the high temp

> zones with zone valves at the upper right of the

> phote, I instead have 5 circulating pumps. Would

> there be any issue with that? Also, what size

> zone pump would you use for the buffer

> circulator? We would be using a 0010 for the

> boiler.





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hr

Zone pumps

would be fine if piped off a primary loop and have check protection. Think Super Brutes!

The boiler pump will be sized from the boiler manufactures spec. Gpm and pressure drop. Older boiler installation manuals would have a table to show this spec. Usually at a few different delta T's. Should be able to find that online if the manual is missing.

Now a days the boiler manuals show an actual pump brand and model spec. At least all the condensors I have installed do.

Weil and Lochinvar actually include a circ with their condensors.

That reverse indirect has very little pressure drop. You size that pump to the GPM flow you want to move. The manufacture of that tank will also show a pump size chart in their installation manual, if in doubt.

If you need to move 100,000 BTU/hr at a 20° delta t then a 10 gpm pump is what you look at. Easily within a 007, Super Brute, NRF22 or Armstrong equivelent. Depending on your color preference

hot rod



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