Water feed valve or not for house winterizing ?? ( s milne)

Guy_6

Hi Scott,
The Low water cut off and ball valve route has my vote. Tie in an alarm should the heat go down, and the system will be about as safe as a full system can get. Wait-Anti freeze it as well.

ScottMP

We have a customer

who is concerned about what to do for his house while no one is there, this winter.

We have spoken about shutting of the water main to protect against water damage. If this was done we would install a seperate water line to the boiler feed to protect the boilers.

It got me thinking that while a make up valve is good, maybe a ball valve that was shut and a low water cut-off would be better ? The shut-off would stop water from feeding to a split or broken heating pipe and the low water cut-off would protect the boilers ( there are two, twinned together ).

Any thoughts ??

Scott

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Constantin

Have you considered Water Cop?

Perhaps this is an application for two water cops?

The first water cop shuts off the cold water main to the rest of the house whenever the house alarm is engaged. The second one feeds the boiler, except when there is water at the bottom of the utility room.

One thing to consider is how appliances that rely on water will react to having the cold water shut off. I'm thinking dishwashwers, washing machines, etc. Watercop evidently also sells control panels that are separate from the home alarm system.

Paul Rohrs_4

Another alternative from the Mind of Mark Eatherton

which I really like for remote applications. (Again if t the primary PRV would be shut off.)

ME posted this sometime back and if I recall correctly, was made to adopt this strategy because of insurance liability of flooding/freezing.

A secondary expansion tank is used as a glycol/water is filled to 60psi feeding the PRV. If there is a leak, the "Glycol Pig" tank feeds the 12psi PRV until 12psi is stabilized or the secondary expansion tank is depleted and the LWCO or flow-switch actuates as the final safety device.

I think I could go back and find the original thread by ME, it would just take me some time. (Mark is brilliant and should get full credit for this idea.)



Regards,

PR

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hr

I went through a phase

of not using or turning on fill valves and systems. Went with LWC and no fill.

I swear i have been back to every one of those jobs to add some water. sometimes less than a quart. not sure where it goes. I suspect radiant systems with lots of tube burp a small amount of air every season.

Fill valve with backflow locked and loaded for me

I would look into glycol with a fill tank, or some of the alarm systems other mentioned.

I'm real gun shy about filling and leaving a hydronic system. Nothing like a no heat call back for a small amount of fill water.

Could be a big problem on a vacation home without temperature monitoring.

hot rod

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[Deleted User]

Scobble... ;-

> who is concerned about what to do for his house

> while no one is there, this winter.

>

> We have

> spoken about shutting of the water main to

> protect against water damage. If this was done we

> would install a seperate water line to the boiler

> feed to protect the boilers.

>

> It got me

> thinking that while a make up valve is good,

> maybe a ball valve that was shut and a low water

> cut-off would be better ? The shut-off would

> stop water from feeding to a split or broken

> heating pipe and the low water cut-off would

> protect the boilers ( there are two, twinned

> together ).

>

> Any thoughts ??

>

> Scott

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 237&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Valid questions. Let's play the IF THEN game.

IF you leave it as it is, and THEN they lose power or fuel source, they could come back to a multi tiered disaster, inclusing frozen and spewing pipes in their heating system as well as their Domestic system. Not a good scenario.

IF you modify the system, adding the LWCO and if I may suggest, a LPCO, and shut off the make up, THEN it is possible that for whatever reason the system loses pressure, and the heating system shuts down, you end up wit the same disaster portrayed in scenario 1. THe only thing avoided is a possible melt down at the boiler, which in and of itself is not a good scenario...

IF you modify the system as outlined in scenario 2, AND you add a low temperature alarm system of which there are numerous available, THEN you've pretty much covered all your bases.

The new low temp alarm systems can be programmed to call three different numbers, and it will continue to do so until someone responds with a "silence" key code, acknowledging that there is a problem.

[Deleted User]

Scobble... ;-)

Valid questions. Let's play the IF THEN game. In all cases, regardless of what path you take, if you shut off the water to the system and you don't have a LWCO as a minimum protection device, and things DO go south, you just bought the bag of liability. Lock Stock and Barrell.

IF you leave it as it is, and THEN they lose power/heat or fuel source, they could come back to a multi tiered disaster, including frozen and spewing pipes in their heating system as well as their Domestic system. Not a good scenario.

IF you modify the system, adding the LWCO and if I may suggest, a LPCO, and shut off the make up, THEN it is possible that for whatever reason the system loses pressure, and the heating system shuts down, you end up with the same disaster portrayed in scenario 1. The only thing avoided is a possible melt down at the boiler, which in and of itself is not a good scenario...

IF you modify the system as outlined in scenario 2, AND you add a low temperature alarm system of which there are numerous available, THEN you've pretty much covered all your bases.

The new low temp alarm systems can be programmed to call three different numbers, and it will continue to do so until someone responds with a "silence" key code, acknowledging that there is a problem.

Alternately, there are devices that will phone out on contact closure. This could be connected, via relays to the LPCO and you would be notified early in the process as opposed to later in the process when minor freeze damage may have already occurred.

I think it is STILL a good idea to have human intervention whenever possible to avoid the possibility of a mechanical MAYHEM disaster..

HR, since we've started using the captive pressurization system, we've had very few no heat calls, and when we have had them, there was a valid reason, usually a minor leak someplace within the system. As we all know, NO leak should go unchecked. A TIGHT systems is a GOOD system :-)

Paul, Thanks for the kudos. If there's ever any help you may need (doubtful) please feel free to contact me.

ME

Unknown

Hey Scott

The way you worded your question , it sounds like a LWCO isn't required on all boilers where you are ?

I'd go with the LWCO and shut all the water down . Worst case is a frozen pipe busts with minimal water damage . If noones there to catch a leak that keeps on leaking ( if the water is on 24/7 ) , someones in for a world of hurt .