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Burnham Dropped Header Piping

Per request of many here on "The Wall" and especially Ron Jr. who has a local inspector in need of an "attitude adjustment", the latest version of the Megasteam I&O manual will include "Dropped Header" piping drawings. Just want to show you all that we are a company that listens and responds.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Technical Development

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Comments

  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    AWESOME!


    But my favorite part in the MST lit. is the warning about using cooper on steam.

    Burnham hit a home run IMHO on this.

    Looks like I'll be installing my first MST soon.

    Sure wish I could get it with a Riello though.

    Mega Kudos to Burnham!

    Mark H

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  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    outstanding

    I have two independances going in now and they of course will be dropped..fortunately our local inspectors have no issue with a dropped header...glad to see its making a manual tho..well done.

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    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
    Once agian

    Showing why Burnham and Glenn Stanton are are a Great team !

    Companys that listen and look forward not Back.

    Great Job Glenn. Thanks for keeping us informed.

    Scott

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  • David Sutton_6
    David Sutton_6 Member Posts: 1,079
    Very impressive!

    You Guys are a class act Glen


    David
  • Biged
    Biged Member Posts: 117
    V83 steam discontinued

    I got a shock this morning when I went to get a V83 steam,was told it is discontinued and the price for the megasteam is $500 more. I don't know what to do since I have 4 V83 steam jobs approved with a Boston City agency with the V83 prices.This would put Utica (the other brand they use)at a distinct advantage price wise.I will have to see if they will change their proposalsto reflect the new prices.
  • Dave_4
    Dave_4 Member Posts: 1,405
    Bad info

    I think you got some bad info, I just got a price on a V83 and Megasteam yesterday.
  • BigEd

    The V-8 has not been discontinued for steam applications. What you have experienced is simply a misinterpretation of sorts from one of our distributors that has chosen to stock only the MST or Megasteam series boiler. There are other distributors in your area that still inventory the V8 Steam boilers. As time goes on we will probably see more and more distributors selling the Megasteam and at that point in time a decision may be reach as to whether the V8 will remain in the line as a steam boiler. For now they are still available to those who order them. Hope this helps.



    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • tom_82
    tom_82 Member Posts: 66
    big ed

    Big Ed,
    Are you a steam guy in Boston.
    We have a 30 unit building and need some steam help.
    Can I contact you?

    Sorry to jump in on the thread,
    TOm
  • Biged
    Biged Member Posts: 117
    V83 -Megasteam

    I'll find out tomarrow but in the interrim they told me to use WM, Smith or Utica I refuse to install WM OR Smith
    (strictly a service issue with these two) and made arrangements to install the Utica boilers at the price that fits their budget.So I'M getting 2 possible 3 V83 KN
    and the rest my choice Utica
  • Biged
    Biged Member Posts: 117


    Please send me an E-mail
  • Will_5
    Will_5 Member Posts: 85
    What's....

    wrong with the Megasteam? It's not that much more money and the benefits are definitley there. I don't plan on offering anything but the Megasteam from now on. If I'm bidding against someone else, to me the Megasteam is an easy sell over the rest. Finally there is something better in a steam boiler!!!!!

    C
  • tom_82
    tom_82 Member Posts: 66
    Big Ed

    Hey,
    My email adress is, [email protected]
  • Jim_83
    Jim_83 Member Posts: 67


    Glenn Stanton, Can you please get latest version of the I&O manual updated on the Burnham Web site too? I'm interested in the MegaSteam, but when I talk to the contractors they don't seem to know what a drop header is. I'd like to be able to point them your online manual.

    Thank you.
  • Jim

    We are in the process of having all of our websites redeveloped and the upgrade of the online manual depicting the dropped header was probably an oversight. I'll see to it that it is changed. In the meantime you can show them this attachment. It is one of our Megasteam Header Kits that are now available through your local Burnham distributor.

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,738
    Glenn, Megasteam??

    Glenn, are any gas burners tested on the Megasteam or just oil. Tim
  • Tim

    There has been no testing done with gas burners yet with the MegaSteam boiler. There has been some request to do so but when you already have a dedicated gas steam boiler like the Independence there would be little market for a gas equipped MegaSteam. We haven't shut the door on this though and in order to get it equipped, the testing and setup data will need to be established by the gas burner manufacturers in order for us to get it certified for use with gas. There is a whole lot more to it than slapping a gas burner on the boiler and letting it rip. That testing takes time, cooperation and certification.

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,738
    I hear you Glenn

    I know the testing and approval procedure is a bit cumbersome but would be interesting w/ a wet base design as I think this is. Thanks, Tim
  • Tim

    The wet base design is certainly one positive aspect but the major difference is that the MegaSteam boiler is of three pass flue design. The price of the Megasteam with a gas burner would also be at a rather substantial premium as compared to the dry-base atmospheric type Independence gas boiler. We're not so sure that the average consumer would be willing to pay that premium....are you?

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Patrick North
    Patrick North Member Posts: 84
    Pay to play

    If I can rudely jump in and answer a question that was not asked of me:
    In an era of 95+% efficiency (hw) boilers, the MegaSteam seems like the only option to me, though we currently use gas. With fuel prices what they are, and will be, those extra percentage points (over the Independence) seem just like added insulation: heat you only pay for once. Given the labor costs involved in installing a boiler (would a MegaSteam be more demanding in this regard?) I think that price difference in boilers would have to be pretty steep to make the installed cost not seem worth the overall benefits. Increased efficiency? Easier to maintain/service? Heck yeah, I'd buy it- I've noted here before I'll take two- when there's a certified gas burner. Plenty of steam boilers in our neighborhood (Bellefonte, PA)and plenty of folks looking to use as little fuel as possible.
    Thanks,
    Patrick North
  • craig_11
    craig_11 Member Posts: 5
    hartford loop

    I realize the loop should be two inches below the normal water line, but with the min-max and the size of a 1 1/2 or 2 inch fitting, do you prefer it at the bottom of the branch of the wye or tee, or the middle?
  • Hartford Loop

    I was always taught that the 2" was from the NWL to the center of the tee. With the Wye that we provide in the header kits, that dimension is from the NWL to the crotch of the Wye. The nice thing about a wye is that there is no lateral piping where steam and water will meet and possibly make a racket!

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • Patrick

    Other than assembling the boiler on site, there really is no additional labor required. The efficiency ratings that I have seen of at least one manufacturer's gas burners as tested with a similar three pass design boiler such as our MPO boiler were coming in about 3% to 4% less than oil burners. This would make the efficiency ratings about equal with the Independence boiler. The estimated premium when comparing similarly sized boilers would probably be about $400 to $500. This is why we are concerned about whether to persue this.

    Glenn Stanton

    Manager of Technical Development

    Burnham Hydronics

    U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.
  • scrook_2
    scrook_2 Member Posts: 610
    why the wye...

    So the wye in the hartford loop is potentially quieter than a tee, as the horizontal length is essentially zero, vs. a bit more than the length of the close nipple. Hmmm.
  • Patrick North
    Patrick North Member Posts: 84
    Still worth it?

    Well, the downgrade of the efficiency numbers is a disappointment, but probably not a deal-breaker in my book. Are gas burners inherently less efficient, were the tested burners not ideal for the boiler, or some combination? Even with a marginal edge in efficiency over the Independence, what I've pieced together from this site and others makes me think the MegaSteam's ease of servicing (longer life?) and overall ruggedness (based on installer assessments here)would be worth the extra cost. If I can get an extra few years out of a boiler, it's a bargain. But I can see how conveying this viewpoint is more difficult than simply flashing dramatic AFUE numbers, say nothing of more difficult to prove.
    Anyway, it looks like Bertha and Betty (the old American Standards in our basement)will be with us for another season, so you've got some more time to develop that residential condensing steamer ;) ...
    Thanks,
    Patrick
  • Thermal Efficiency

    is what you're getting to, Pat. It is not the same as AFUE, which is more complicated.

    In a somewhat simplified definition, thermal efficiency is a measure of heat input to heat output in BTUs. Based on published figures from the manufacturers, we find out what percentage the DOE Heating Capacity (gross output rating) is of the Input rating to get this figure. The wet-base power-burner boilers are much better in this regard than atmospheric gas ones- Betty and Bertha are atmospheric.

    Many atmospheric gas boilers work out to a thermal efficiency of 80%. Burnham's Independence steamers are better, averaging 82.5%. But a wet-base boiler with a gas power burner like the Smith G8 has a thermal efficiency of 86%. Based on the published BTU input and output figures for the oil-fired Mega-Steam, it would do as well as the Smith in this regard if the input and output figures were the same on gas. Its 3-pass design would probably give it an AFUE rating equal to oil too, with the right power gas burner.

    Why the difference? Atmospheric boilers have the firing zone completely below the cast-iron sections, and lose a measurable amount of heat thru the base. The wet-base surrounds the flame almost completely with water-backed cast-iron. Also, the power burner mixes gas with air more efficiently than the Bunsen type used on atmospherics, resulting in less excess air.

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