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Looking for advice on new heating system

able
able Member Posts: 16
system sound like a hydro air with a aqua stat strapped on the return pipe either remove aqua stat and install a time delay relay or put aqua stat inside air hadler in the path of air flow so it cools the pipe down and sutts off the fan I have seen them installed outside on the piping and the pipe takes for ever to cool down

Comments

  • Mark_90
    Mark_90 Member Posts: 2
    Advice on new hydronic heating system

    I am looking to replace my current Burnham boiler (9 years old) which I'm told is a 'builders special' and it has tankless domestic hot water. I'm told it's efficiency is poor and we are also having trouble with the upstairs zone taking on air and blowing cold air even after repeated attempts to fix it. What is being recommended (by what we hope is a more reputable HVAC company that the previous) is a Buderas 115 oil fired boiler with a Logomatic 2107, Riello burner and Superstor SSU45 indirect water heater. The house is two zoned, total of 3200 sq. ft. Our current system has trouble keeping up when the outside temp dips only as low as +5 degrees F. Any thoughts or other suggestions/recommendations/comments?
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,471
    Which model Burnham

    It might just need a good cleaning and tune up., and a new oil Burner They could add an ODR (outdoor reset control)control that does what the Logamatic Control does. Can you post any pics? Depending on the near-boiler piping, you may have a chance at rehabbing the Burnham. Even their steel boilers are not "builders-specials." We install both Burnham and Buderus. You can't go wrong with either. I hope they are doing a heatloss calc for you - make sure. Mad Dog

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  • John_82
    John_82 Member Posts: 63


    I'd do a heatloss, see if your current boiler/nozzle situation can do the load. If so, I'd then cap off the tankless coil, add the indirect, & add a Tekmar outdoor reset control w/ domestic priority. Of course have the boiler cleaned and have the service guy do an efficiency test & tune the burner up to be as clean and economical as possible. If the boiler's too small, then get the new boiler. I'm partial to Buderus and their iron, but Burnham is a good unit too. The outdoor reset is great way to save fuel dollars!!
  • Mark_90
    Mark_90 Member Posts: 2
    new heating system

    Mad Dog,
    Thanks for the reply. I'll ask that a heat loss calc be done too. Would that be needed to determine the proper size of the boiler needed? The real problem is the upstairs heat failing due to air in the system. I've been told by two different pros that the repiping needed to correct the current situation might not be worth spending $ (1,600) on to correct given the poor efficiency of the current boiler (73% efficiency) and the need for a better domestic hot water setup. I'd like to be able to add radiant heat to the master bath and possible the master bedroom in the future and I was told that the Burnham wouldn't cut it for that. I've been quoted $7800 for the new Buderas system with Logamatic and Superstore tank, including Spirovents and new programable thermostats for both zones.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,537


    It seems like the first tecnician can't meet your expectations.

    The new guy can "promise" the second floor will work? He may see something the last guy missed. That's a good price do it.

    Did he talk to you about the BFU sensor? This will give you true constant circulation. BTW, "zones" are much of an american thing, we love our thermostats!

    We'll sometimes talk people out of there love for the two-zone and run the entire house off of one BFU. Just tweak the more dominant zone down to balance. Gosh it's even possible that the two fllors may be perfectly balanced already!

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  • realolman
    realolman Member Posts: 513
    i don't understand

    what the second floor air problem has to do with the boiler.

    If you don't correct that, it's gonna be there no matter what boiler is there.

    A friend of mine has a rediant heat zone hooked up to a coal boiler. I think he uses a mixing valve.

    I have about a 12 yr old burnham v74... too big for the house... also with an indirect ( which I quit using). I have down fired it twice and lowered the stack temp by 100 degrees. I'm gonna do it again and see how it goes. If it goes O.K I'll have cut the nozzle size from 1.1 to .65.

    My point is: Are you sure you got the right "pro" yet? the Burnham isn't that old.. I'm sure the Buderus set up would probably kick it's butt, but 8 grand in your pocket ain't bad either. Maybe you ought to gat someone else who knows what he's doing to look it over.

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,471
    Although we do noy discuss prcies here..........................

    I must say, Gary, a good price for whom? Enough said. You really need a professional in there who can address all the issues. It sound like they just want to sell you a new boiler which is fine, But If I recall, the boiler is 7-8 years old???? Also, I havene't seen too many existing boilers over the years that couldn't acommodate a pair of small low temp, radiant zones. Yes, Proper piping and air elimination (spirovent ) can take care of the air problems.
    Mad Dog

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  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,471
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  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,537


    I didn't post the price; I can't (or shouldn't) comment on price? I'll email direct next time i8f that's the case.

    I've seen jobs half that old that I would yank out of the basement if it were my house. What does age have to do with anything? If that thought process ruled our economy we would all be driving 8 year old cars. Let's let the home owner decide when he wants to replace; who are we to say "no"? Can you imagine buying a new car and the sales guy peeks over our shoulder and says, "you may want a second opinion, I'm not really sure you need a new car". Sound crazy? That's exactly what you're implying.

    We all have our unique business model and philosophy; I enjoy installing new equipment and sleep very well at night!


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  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,537


    You're right, but maybe the system was botched. You've never seen a horrible installation? When we run into this we give a price for a complete makeover and also for a complete rip-out/new install.

    What if your 8 year old car needed 5 grand worth of work. Might you consider throwing in the towel?

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  • Dave_4
    Dave_4 Member Posts: 1,405
    analogies

    "The real problem is the upstairs heat failing due to air in the system."

    A new boiler won't fix the problem. Imagine if every time you went to a dealership to have your car worked on, they claimed your car was totaled and that you really should buy a new one from them.

    "What does age have to do with anything?"

    You're kidding, right?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,537
    missed

    Then why is the guy thinking about buying a new system? Or did I not understand? He is considering buying a new system right? We're beating around two things at once. We have pro-fix-it people here and pro-yank-it and do it all over right once and for all people here.

    If Joe Blow built your car and all of our cars, your argument was make me look like a stupid moron. But some billion dollar corporation built it right? Well, Joe Blow DID build this guy's system, and it is all crappy; you got my point all screwed up, please read it again.

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  • Mark_91
    Mark_91 Member Posts: 1
    thanks for all the feedback

    I realize that I don't need to replace the boiler to fix the air situation upstairs which is why I've asked for two estimates, one to fix and the other to replace. I'm interested in replacing because the efficiency of the current boiler is terrible, my house is never really comfortable, I want to add a water tank and possibly more zones. I've been told the lifespan on the Burnham is typically 12 - 15 year so before I throw more money at the existing system (I've already spent more than I should have to someone who didn't know what they were doing to fix the upstairs only to still have the problem) I thought I should look longer term and spend the money on an upgrade in efficiency. The quotes on the new boiler include a guarantee that the upstairs air problem will be addressed as well. I didn't know that we shouldn't discuss prices so that my mistake. I realize there is a big difference in fixing vs. replacing but peace of mind and greater efficiency are worth something too.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,537


    Thanks you for the clarification. Best of luck with whatever road you choose.

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    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
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  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 11,992


    I'm with the "fix what it needs crowd" Maybe the boiler is ok, maybe not. What 7 year old boiler gets 73% unless there is something wrong with it? Fix the system first and then if he needs a boiler replace it.


    ED
  • able
    able Member Posts: 16
    boiler replacement

    I would have to say if its a burnham and is seven to eight years old and hasnt cracked yet it must be steel maybe the baffles are missing giving you a real high stack temp and killing youre efficency if system needs to be repiped I would replace the boiler with the buderus or another three pass boiler . if the system is radiant or any other make sure you do a heat loss you may not a have enough floor area or just a poorly controled system go with outdoor reset and constant circulation.or if its hydro air you might have under sized air handler or duct,or not enough base board if its baseboard
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