Getting the boot in the thumb

Joannie_12

And yours are not the only Senators (or Congress"persons") who have that as their main agenda. Yet they want us to believe they are all for "compromise" and "working together." Liars. Makes me sick.

John R. Hall

Michigan HVAC techs need a new boss

The entire crew of techs (five) at an Imlay City, Michigan business were pink-slipped recently by their boss. It's a real shame because they had no warning of the layoff and weren't prepared for this life-altering event. Times are pretty tough for the Michigan economy and they've had no luck in finding new jobs. One guy I spoke with is tied to the area because his young daughters are there and he doesn't want to leave. But there just aren't too many prospects in the thumb area of Michigan. I said I'd do what I could to put the word out. Maybe Wallies have some connections or could offer advice to these men. They really need to get back to work and suport their families. Thanks.

Darin(in Michigan)

Bad News

Sorry to hear about the staff. My recommondation for the guy who can't move is to try to get on at the prison in Lapeer(I think there's one) and do heating on the side. i know it sucks but the state is one of the few employers I can think of where you still get sick days on top of vacation days. It is easy to get time off after a few years and you still get a decent wage without a large volume of education in a different field. It's a hard row to hoe but a man's got to do...
Economic climate up north isn't much better. I overheard the boss say to another this summer could be a real test of the company's longevity. I myself maybe in the market down the road.

jp_2

see what happens

when you buy a toyota!

not buying US built products has a 'trickle down effect'.

of course lazy UAW workers haven't helped nor have the engineer who 'kows its all' or the bean counter thats says can't put more research into a better product, cuts into profits too much.

ps I drive a GM truck!

jackchips_2

Unbelievable

JP. I suppose your only burning gasoline from American wells.

Jack

jp_2

Jack,

if i could, i would buy american made gasoline.

if you don't beleive, just keep buying foriegn made stuff!

so, do you live in lower michigan? do you have any idea of the millions of jobs that surround building cars and trucks?

Leo

You can't just blame

You can't just blame auto buyers and workers. What about the loss of steel mills in PA, Paper and Furniture mills in the NorthEast. The list is endless. I recently bought a Japenese computer made in China. I don't have any answers but there seems no end to cycle.

Leo

jim lockard

just goes to show

Where always the low price will get you. We as a country wanted "down and dirty" now what. J.Lockard

ALH_4

jobs

We in America need to stop our short term thinking. Unfortunately I do not see it happening any time soon.

I wish these people the best in their search. It sounds as if they have a lot of company with all the layoffs in the automotive industry. Maybe one day we can bring these jobs back home.

Steve Ebels_3

A harbinger of things to come

Here in Michigan we have a saying. "As goes General Motors, so goes the nation". To which we could add Ford and their report of a 12.7 BILLION dollar loss this week. You can talk all you want about how the service sector is growing but stop and think about what areas of the economy provides the customers, equipment and demand for the service sector. Also be aware that the service sector numbers include those flipping burgers at Micky D's for $7-8.00 / hour. Yep, they're going to support a family and contribute to economic growth with those wages. RIIIGGGHHHTTTTT!

GM, Ford and what used to be Chrysler directly and indirectly employed a very large percentage of the entire US population at one time. Someone mentioned steel mills as an example and it's a good one. Those were jobs that supported a family and left a little over to keep the economy expanding. Now think about a few other related industries like sub assembly shops by the thousands, tool and die shops, (there used to be dozens in this county alone, now 4 left) machine shops, component manufacturing ..........and on and on and on.

My gut tells me that as soon as the "service" industry jobs that can be done cheaper somewhere else can be exported, they will be. At that point there will be work only for those who provide an indispensable service, people that actually fix something or people who are so highly trained and skilled that they can stay here and work. One has to wonder though, just exactly where the currency to provide their income is going to come from. Clue.....it's not the burger boy in the "service sector" of the economy.

Sooner or later we have to find a way to be competitive in global manufacturing and get back to an economy that generates tangible products instead of pieces of paper and information.

Jeff Lawrence_25

So,

what is the business going to do for it's HVAC work? Is the company going to outsource the work or hire a new crew?

Steve Ebels_3

The issue is

There's no work. period. Not a question of who's going to do the work for most of the shops I know. From what I hear around these parts, the boys and I are about the only place that has work other than service to do yet. (maybe we're just slower than the other guys)

At least when the Gulf Coast got pounded by Katrina the Feds threw a few hundred billion $$ at them. Michigan is in a similar economic condition and our two gutless senators are more concerned about making Bush look bad than actually doing something to help.

jackchips_2

Sorry,

JP but you missed the point I was making and that's my fault.

John was looking to help some people and you turned the thread into another bash job.

We're both entitled to our opinion but just maybe it didn't belong here.

My apology to John for helping to send this down the wrong road.

Jack

jp_2

sorry jack,

gotta look at the REAL problem so a solution can be found. my brother, a carpenter, is also looking for work. its getting tougher in Mich, we need to agree why.

so, are you next going to blame me for these guys not getting work?

added: as you may notice jack, this thread is getting more hits, a better chance for these guys at getting some help......

John R. Hall

Former boss

From what I understand the business is still open but little is being done. There's more to the story but suffice it to say these guys need help. Retraining? Maybe. But making a paycheck in the meantime is imperative. I used to believe that there are always jobs for people wo are willing to look for them. Now I'm not so sure, especially in Michigan.

jp_2

mainly all farm country

in those parts. they could learn to milk cows?

John R. Hall

jp

Thanks for making light of a serious problem.

jp_2

didn't you?

post a new york times article recently that said the sooner GM goes under the better, the sooner toyota takes over the better? wasn't that you? the article that blamed the Hummer on global warming?

when you have to feed your family, don't you do what you can?

something wrong with farming, too simple minded????

jp_2

sorry john, not you

I just found that hummer thread, you didn't not post it, sorry.

Rich W

In west MI, Grand Rapids to be specific, there are well over 200 HVAC contractors. How on earth can there be enough work to support this? THERE IS NOT!! This year, my wife and I made less than I made alone in 1987!!!! Granted, that was a lot of OT back then (she was able to be a stay-at-home mom), but...too much competition is just as bad as too little. Too little hurts the consumer and too much hurts the service provider.

I’ve written heat gain/loss software, designed and built half a dozen electronic testers for HVAC that I use everyday…people around here just don’t care. All they want is the lowest price…somehow, they also expect to have the highest quality service too!!!

Fortunately, we were able to put two kids through college (still paying for it) and they left the state for work. I have sympathy for these guys. Unfortunately, I am in no position to help. In spite of being state licensed since the early 1990’s and NATE certified in 2000, I am also looking for other employment. Something, anything, that will provide a more stable income…I wish them all the luck.

Steve Ebels_3

The nail on the head

"All they want is the lowest price…somehow, they also expect to have the highest quality service too!!!"

The average HO assumes that contractor A is as good as contractor B. They also assume that a furnace is a furnace, just a steel box with burners and a blower. They also assume that if the work is inspected and passes their installation is OK.

All of the above assumptions are false.

There's a reason that the average life of a new gas furnace is around 11 years IIRC. Subtle hint here........it's the installation and setup stupid.

You can show them pictures of your work and letters of recommendation til you're blue in the face. It doesn't mean squat to 90% of them.

I feel your pain Rich, it's worse 100 miles north of you.

Steamhead (in transit)

This would be a great opportunity

for a manufacturing or similar business looking to expand. If it had happened a couple years ago, Weil-McLain might have opened its new plant there rather than in the Carolinas......

Wonder if anyone in Heating Land will jump on it?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Rich W

Sending good thoughts to the north country Steve. I've read and tried many of the ideas in Dan's books (and Ziglar among others). I believe in them. Unfortunately, the customers are getting what they think they want. Four or five companies fighting for a residential replacement job leads to blood-letting. When the smoke clears, the customer is left with an unrealistically low price. Unfortunately, the one left standing has to run like a fool and cut corners to break even on the job. I can’t tell you how many times my boss has cut my bids to the point that the installers are working for their hourly wages. No money for profit, trucks, benefits…just paying for their time at the house. Now, if the bargain 80% furnace doesn’t perform like the variable speed 96% unit their neighbor has, the customer can sit back and complain to RUTH TO THE RESCUE, or whatever her name is, about how badly they were ripped-off. It’s an up-hill battle trying to convince them that THAT kind of low price means low quality-ALWAYS.

The MI economy has been going down for years and there are no simple answers. However, people with a Hummer and a Caddy SUV sitting in the driveway should be willing to spend more than $1600 for a new furnace. Let’s see, $1600 spread over 20 years (even 10) for the furnace vs. $1600 EVERY MONTH for the vehicles- I’m sure it’s more when you count insurance. But, like others have said here, your neighbors don’t see the furnace or boiler. Oh well, it’s a free country. Spend your money where you will. Just don’t cry to me or Ruthie when the YUGO that you reluctantly paid for, doesn’t ride like a DeVille…

Atleast I can afford to watch the Wings on TV yet

P.S. My wife recently took a second job. I run service, so I can't do that. Gotta be available...I'm working 20-25 hours per week. The boss just laid-off the other two techs and the installers on Friday. He said he kept me because my productivity was still above 90% and theirs was below 50%. It's a hard thing to start at 7:30 and zip through a job knowing that your pay stops until the next service call comes in. Many times that means going out at 9pm for straight time and still only ending up with 3hours or less for the day...I don't steal/moon-light, so, I'm looking for steady work. Around here that means non-HVAC work. I feel like a jerk, not being able to control this. It does not make me feel better knowing others are in the same boat or worse. Our prayers go out to them and their families.