Should I buy a home with forced hot air? Pros/Cons

Steamhead (in transit)

so you'll be comfortable all winter. Use a separate mini-duct or mini-split system for A/C if you really think you need it.

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=367&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

Matt_48

We are are buying our first home and found one we like. This home has forced hot air and I was wondering if this is good or bad? What are the pros and cons of this forced hot air. Are there any heating systems we should avoid at all costs?What kinds of heating systems should we looking for?
We live in upstate NY and heating costs during the winter can be outrageous. Any advice would be very much appreaciated.
Thanks,
Matt

Uni R_3

Not long lists for me

Pros
- can be really leaky, probably is leaky, but it only leaks air

Cons
- you'll never be as comfortable

************

Some people fear water leakage so badly they'll give up comfort so that they can be blissfully unaware of their leaks.

Dave_4

Hot air


My first choise would be radaint , then hydronic baseboard , But I wouldn't pass up a house I liked just because it had hot air.

If the system is installed correctly you will be comfortable. Just make sure you maintain it. Keep a case of filters near by and replace them on a regular basis during the heating season. If you have a humidifier in the unit , maintain that, most don't ever get touched....

We service a lot of heating systems in the fall and I don't see a big differance in heating bills between hydronic or hot air .

Pay for a service call and have the system checked out by a heating contractor , and if he says the system is in fine working condition and intalled correctly don't give it a nother thought.

Buy it if you like it.

Dave
Belisle Plumbing & Heating

don_185

LOL.

It will always be a onesided conversation when you ask a question here about forceair.

However..if you were to ask if you purchase a home that had hydronic forceair then you would properly get different opinion.Not sure why, its forceair but..being it has a boiler that drives it,then it becomes ok.

Let me go at it in a different manner.How old is the home you are about to purchase?

Dave_4

hot air

My first choise would be radiant , then hydronic baseboard , But I wouldn't pass up a house I liked just because it had hot air.

If the system is installed correctly you will be comfortable. Just make sure you maintain it. Keep a case of filters near by and replace them on a regular basis during the heating season.

We service a lot of heating systems in the fall and I don't see a big differance in heating bills between hydronic or hot air in similar homes.....

Pay for a service call and have the system checked out by a heating contractor , and if he says the system is in fine working condition and installed correctly don't give it another thought.

Buy it if you like it.

Dave in NH

Techman

WARM AIR-not hot air!!!!!!

Warm air has ducts for air cond,warm air has ducts for electronic air cleaners-some even kill Anthrax,Alegins(?)Spores and Bacterias-,warm air has ducts for humidification.I agree that HOT air stinks.The biggest Q is do you like the house?EVERY type of system requirers some type of maintenance so some tech will have a job.

John R. Hall

Agree

Posting that question here is like asking a cat if it likes chicken or fish.

GW

Good comments and you see that this is a wet heat forum.

We do both

If you have the time and the energy, have your system checked before you buy by a qualified technician. Go to National Comfort Institute's directory and see if anyone is close to you.

You could have a great warm air system or a disastrous one. You may as well roll the dice. Non qualified techs may offer an opinion, but they're just blowing hot air without the proper tools/training. This energy can be measured, and measuring takes more than waving your hand by a supply register.


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Constantin

Hi Matt,

Fellow homeowner here. I've lived with most forms of home heating: hydronic, steam, electric, coal stove, fireplaces, and forced air. My preference leans towards hydronic heat because of the comfort factor. However, having ducts in the house is a great way to keep the air fresh and the humidity up come winter time.

If properly installed (and usually, that is a BIG if), a forced hot-air system can give you a warm, comfortable home in the winter as well as a air conditioned one come summertime. Trouble is, many homes have very different heating and cooling profiles, which means you either have to zone the heck out of them or adjust baffles and dampers when the system switches from summer to winter mode and back again. Otherwise, may you get some wide temperature swings come winter or summer, which aren't comfortable.

Another issue is distribution. The comfort levels in a room for a human a driven in good part by how the air temperatures vary. Most of us hate having hot heads but cold feet in the winter, for example. Register placement (and the choice of diffuser) can have a large impact on that... the furnace itself and the technology in it can also influence this a lot.

Furnaces with variable-speed blowers and multi-stage heating are much more likely to produce a comfortable, even house temperature (if installed correctly) than a one-stage, one speed furnace. That is why I would always opt to buy a higher end furnace when the current one becomes obsolete, dies, etc. Also, before putting in a new furnace, have a heat loss calculation run (or do your own!) and make sure that the new furnace is not oversized. Properly-sized equipment is key to comfort.

There are several ways to see if the furnace was installed correctly, the best of which is a contractor/inspector that specializes in heating systems. Someone who knows the various brands inside out, who tests the duct work for leakiness, the burner for safe operation, etc. You want to have tradesmen/women on call to help you evaluate homes, as no single inspector usually knows or can test everything there is to know about combustion appliances, electrical systems, plumbing, etc.

What I would focus on first and foremost in any house is how well it is insulated. Are the windows tight, the framing square? What kind of insulation was used and how high are the fuel bills from a winter that I can compare to my own fuel usage history from living nearby? Energystar.gov offers some pretty steep discounts on folk coming out to your home to review the place, do a blower door test, etc. and will then will make improvement suggestions. Well worth the money!

The kinds of "heating systems" would raise my eyebrows include:

• Ventless heating appliances (like some fireplaces and room heaters). Dryers vented into the house is another pet peeve.
  
• I'd investigate a lot if a water heater is used to heat the home... usually it's done for the sake of being cheap, not because the home is super-insulated.
  
• Open-loop radiant/hot water systems is another thing I'd avoid like the plague. Your heating system should be completely separate from the domestic hot water.
  
• Systems without documentation, service records, heat loss calculations show that either the homeowner or that the contractor they used isn't as organized as I'd like. I'd inspect accordingly.

jim P._2

Matt homeowner here with some questions. How old is the house/forced hot air system? The reason I ask is the older it is the more likely the efficiency is way down. The ducts might not be sealed right, dust and dander in the ducts could also be a problem. If its an old F/A system it is not suitabale for A/C. If the system is new have a real pro check it out so he can tell you if you have a bad, good, best system and take it from there. If he tells you its bad be prepared to change out the system or look for another house. My house was built in 1947 with forced hot air and when I bought it ten years ago I thought I could put A/C with the same ducts but some pros told me it would not work right and I agreed after looking at the ducts more closely. My system was old and the house was too uncomfortable. I wound up taking the entire system out and had a pro install a 4 zone hydronic system with cast iron radiators. The difference was day and night as far as comfort and efficiency goes. Not to mention the savings on gas usage. I think the real question is how good is your system? Hope this helps you. Jim

Perry_3

Are allergies a concern?

Another homeowner here:

I jumped at the first house I saw with hot water radiators because I wouldn't have a furnace blowing dust all over the place (dust and dust mite allergies). Yes, you can clean the ducts, and you can put filters in the ducts.. (been there done that); but if certian allergies are a concern bot water (or steam) heat is preferred.

Note also I tore all the carpet out as well. Nice hardwood floors were under that carpet. Hot water heat, hardwood floors -- perfect for me with my allergies.

On the other hand, if there are no allergy concerns - then there really is nothing wrong with a good forced air system.

Also, don't be too put off by the focus by many on the "properely installed" applied to forced air heat... A lot of hot water or steam systems also suffer from problems with them not being properely installed - and a lack of people who can really tell you that.

Of course, you should not buy a house with a disaster system installed - whatever the heating media (air, water, steam), unless you are up front planing to spend the money to fix it (and the house price is disconted accordingly).

The problem is how to tell if your heating system is properely installed and operating correctly... Many people on this forum will justly tell you that you need to figure that out. The problem is actually finding a real expert to do that. If you live near one of the recognized experts on this forum you are lucky(a participant - and not just on "find an expert - who may or may not be an expert for your system"). If not - you may or may not get a real expert to evaluate your system. There are people on this forum who are trying to figure out how to improve on that... but the answer is elusive.

Best of luck with your new house (whatever it is, and however it is heated) and I hope that you find a real professional who really understands your heating system, what it should be, and how to get it there.

Perry

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

don't buy a home

strictly based on the existing heating and/or air conditioning system(s). If this is your dream home, I'd explore the idea of buying it and installing some modifications.

I've lived with oil-fired, gas-fired, furnaces and heat pumnps. I grew up in a 1700's converted log farm house with hot water heating & moved from there to the others. With each successive move, I fondly remembered the comfort I had growing up & missed hydronics. Along the way, I experienced the typical complaints associated with hot air: sinus problems, dry skin, static shocks, etc. So, like everyone else, I added humidifiers and advanced filtration. Comfort, however, remained elusive.

Then we moved to a home with HW BB heating & I found we were comfortable once again. Central A/C was added. There were three hydronic zones: bedrooms; living/din/kit; and the basement rec room.

When we built our (final?) home, I wanted the best, so it's 100% radiantly heated.

But, you can add radiant a step at a time if this is the home you're wanting. If you concentrate on specific areas - like bathrooms and kitchens where the floor surface materials are most likely radiant-friendly, you'll get a foot-in-the-comfort-door. Lots of nice electric radiant heating packages available for small spaces too. Hydro-air is a nice alternative too, if designed and installed properly.

It's far easier to borrow some extra cash up front to add some of these comfort items than adding onto an existing mortgage later.

Check for a pro listed near you (see sidebar) and ask them to check your home for retro-fit potential.

The reason why I encourage all homeowners to add a bit of radiant? It's been my experience that spot-treating an area, like a Master Bath as an example, sells the homeowners on this comfort concept far better than anything I can say or volumes of glossy literature will convey.

Those who don't, don't quite ever understand what they're missing. We don't use slippers because our floors are too delightful to walk on when it's cold and blustery outside!Most of the time, you don't really "feel" the floor is warm, you simply don't feel the tile is cold, as it would in a forced air home. The colder it gets outdoors, the warmer the floor gets till it finally does feel noticably warmer once outdoor temps dip into the teens. A comfort compensator!

jackchips_2

Matt,

I went from a radiant system to a forced "warm" air system in our slab on grade when the piping deteriorated under the slab.

This happened when I was in my late 30's and did not notice a difference in comfort because of mine and my wife's life styles.

As I reached around 55 I did start feeling uncomfortable at times as my body rejects cold more but not to the extent that I would replace what is now also an air conditioning system through the same duct work. The period of discomfort has been alleviated by raising the room temp to 70 rather than 68 when it is extremely cold out and at times leaving the fan on continuous.


If I had a choice of systems in the house of my dreams (I'm in it now) I would opt for radiant or water heat but I would not turn down this house because of the heating system. Any warm air system can be made to meet your needs.

Best of luck,

Jack

Maine Doug_52

Over the years

I have had them all, air, steam, hot water.
My homes or commercial buildings with a well designed air were satisfactory. Poorly designed air was the pits. Hot water was easily "adjusted" to improve comfort. Steam was quiet, comfortable and dried mittens the best. I like radiant floor the best. Current Maine studio has radiant and flat panel rads and a mini-split AC. Baltimore house has air and I will be selling this place in the next couple of years and looking for another building, I hope with HW or steam.

Just today I went to an open house across the street, newly renovated row home for sale at 509,900. HVAC and water heater stuffed into a little room in the basement with a little door to climb into the space. You can't standup and can't even get to some of the stuff. All new equipment but pity the service guy and the new homeowner.
So you pays your money and makes your choice and new is not always better.

Matt_48

Thanks for all the great advice + other info.

Matt_48

Thanks for all the great advice + other info./help needed

Thanks for all of the great advice. This will be very helpful when we go to look at more houses, esp. since we are trying to decipher so much info. as it is.
Many of you asked how old this house is and other questions. We are primarily looking at houses built between 1890 to 1960. We have only looked at houses with new furnaces with the oldest being 3 years old. Also these houses range from 1300 sq.ft to 2000 sq.ft. Most have been two stories but we have looked at one story homes also. I don't know why, but many of the houses for sale are forced air(gas). Maybe it's because water heat houses are getting snatched up quickly. We were going to look at a water heat house but it sold quickly.
One home we looked at last night was a 1.5 story home, which I liked a lot. The only thing about the upstairs I noticed was that it might have been an attic converted to living space because they had space heaters up there. This is another forced air home with a brand new furnace. There are no windows up there except so I don't know if this is good or bad. This floor is 432 sq.ft, while most of the living space is downstairs. The space heaters weren't on at the time and it felt warm, but it did concern me about whether the heating system is properly set up. Not sure if anyone knows about this type of situation so I thought I would add this in here.
Thanks again for your helpful info! Too bad we couldn't bring all of you with us during our house hunt.
Matt

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_1

time

A typical part of the home buying process now includes a whole-house inspection and while many home inspectors do a pretty good job, they lack the experience a qualified PHVAC contractor has learned. If I were a potential homeowner thinking about investing in a home, and knowing what I know about the issues you raised, I'd think it a wise choice to pay for an expert to check the mechanical systems. CO, combustion analysis, etc.

On the other hand, you noted each of the homes have new furnaces. Why not consider homes with clunkers you can turn into junkers while using that to trim the price you pay. Here again, a mechanical expert can weigh in with a solid opinion to back up your concerns. Once the clunker is headed to being a junker, you can control what gets put in its place. Beats waiting 15-years till the new furnace is ready to retire. By then, you'll be accustomed to being uncomfortable & think it's normal.