Steam boiler surging?

Steamhead (in transit)

check with Weil-McLain to see if they will rot out the rubber gaskets between the sections. If this happens the repair will be very expensive, and most likely not covered under the warranty.

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Gary Elovitz

Steam boiler surging?

Hi - my first post to "the Wall", so I hope the combined expertise of the "live men" won't let me down!

Here's the situation: Apartment building in Boston, 30 apartments, one-pipe steam. Boiler is Weil #988 - a little over a year old. Installation looks good: two full-size risers, offset header, main between the risers and the equalizer (at the far end of the boiler) - everything piped like it should be. Gravity return, no pumps. There is a problem with the boiler shutting itself down almost every day - but that may be a burner problem (the technician has not been very talkative). It ran like a charm while I was watching it yesterday, but there was one thing that I didn't quite get, and it bugged me - I hope someone can enlighten me:

While the boiler was steaming, the water level rose in the gauge glass to about 2" above the "normal" water level. It also bounced around a lot, but there was no foam or froth. (The water was very murky/milky.) At the end of the cycle when the boiler shut off, the water level slowly dropped to about 1" below "normal" water level, then very slowly came back to normal as the rest of the condensate returned. No make-up water fed to the boiler at all.

While the boiler was steaming, the water level was very close to the top of the gauge glass, and occasionally surged over the level of the top of the gauge glass. The tapping for the gauge glass is at the same level as the tapping for the pressure controls (vaporstat and high limit pressuretrol). I wonder whether the boiler shutting down could have something to do with water surging into the pressuretrol assembly. Also, should I be concerned that the water does not look clean?

I would appreciate any input!

Norm Harvey

Could you post a picture of the top glass tapping and the vaporstat tapping. I'd be interested to see how that is piped.

Also, when you say "normal" water level, is there a manufacturers mark that your going by?

You could test the boiler water and see if chemicals will help the surging. I typicly use "kek" which comes with a testing powder that is mixed with a sample of the boiler water.

The shutting down problems concerns me,.. is it gas or oil? What actions must be taken to get it running? (manual low water reset, ignition safety, roll out, etc...)

The surging problem doesnt sound that bad to me other than a possile high "normal" water level. The shutting down issue is something I would be concerned with.

It sounds like a canidate for some water treatment.
I'd be interested to hear what some of the others here have to say.

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V8toilet

You’re surging water condition sounds to me like the water quality in your boiler is contaminated with something and is bad. You should check the water by taking a sample of that water and boiling it on a stove next to a clean sample. Also check the PH of the water to see if it's between 7 and 11, preferably around 8.5-9, with a PH test kit. You can get one from an aquarium store. If the water in your boiler has oil in it from the installation process than you'll have to skim the boiler to get the oil off the surface of the water. Skimming the boiler should be explained in your boiler manual. Basically you install a tapping at about the water level and drain off water from it so that the water coming out of that tap is about half way up that tapping (skim the water). Oil floating on top of the water increases the surface tension of the water and causes the boiling water to surge.

When a new boiler is installed the plumbers use oil in their threading machine that gets onto the pipes they install into your new boiler. If that oil was never removed after a few weeks of running the boiler than it will eventually find its way into the boiler water and cause problems. Sometimes you have to skim the boiler multiple times before you get all the oil out and sometimes even after multiple skimming oil continues to get into the water for months after. You just have to keep skimming the water until no more oil gets into the water. This process can be a pain in the but!

Gary Elovitz

Steam boiler surging?

Gary Elovitz

Steam boiler surging?

Thanks for the reply. Here are a couple of photos showing the sight glass and controls - one of the boiler idle, and one firing, so you can see the different water levels.

The boiler fires #2 oil. The owner tells me that when the boiler shuts down they have to manually reset something, but he doesn't know what, and I haven't been able to ask the service guy yet. I suspect it is the burner reset.

jim_110

Surging

Gary that looks like a resent install. You need to install pigtails under your pressuretrol and vaporstat to prevent hot water and steam from compromising your controls and shutting your boiler of early. Plus as advised earlier skim boiler water, if bouncing persists clean boiler with Rhomar hydro-solve cleaner. Good Luck

Bill Jirik,

pigtails not needed

Gary , definately skim the boiler and perhaps clean it using trisodiumphospate, certainly could be fouled with manufacturing and installation residue, as far as pigtails on your controls, they aren't needed as Weil Mclain provides for a protective pocket of water in thier control piping design, notice th built in water trap and blow off to flush out the line.

[Deleted User]

From a different

perspective. What make & model # burner is firing the boiler? What size/angle/pattern nozzle(s)? Pump pressure in hi fire? Combustion numbers, particularly hi fire stack temp?