Takagi tankless OK for long duty cycle?

scotty_2

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob? Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters.

Let's try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if we can, they come here for help, not to be beat up.

I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Many ways to skin a cat as they say.

I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 is on my work bench right now. I sure hope all of you "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive.

I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the Trinity works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

Spudwrench

Ok to use Takagi for near continuous duty?

I'm heating our home with a Takagi Tk jr tankless, driving Myson panel rads. The Takagi has programmable output temp, ranging from 114-182 deg. Last year (the first year for this system) I did a sort of manual OR thing- setting the temp to 122 during mild weather, and gradually increased temp as the weather got cooler. My question is this: since the Takagi wasn't really designed for this application, am I damaging it by using it at near continuous duty? (I.e. I could set the water temp higher and have it cycle on and off, or set the temp lower and have the Takagi running almost continuously, probably saving some fuel in the process.)

Thanks!
Nathan

J.C.A._3

It's a water heater!

How long do you expect it to last while space heating?
It's passing copious amounts of water through it trying to do something it WASN'T designed for.

Stop being a boob, and do yourself a favor. Use the Takagi for a water heater and find yourself a BOILER for space heating.

I'm getting tired of these posts. A water heater is just what it says it is....Bottom line. It shouldn't be used as a "space heating" device. That's NOT what it was designed for, and the warranty is "null and void" the moment it is connected as such. Save yourself a load of problems. Get a Boiler for your space heating needs, and use the water heater for just that.

Cheap only lasts as long as the appliance, and in this case or cases,it isn't a cheaper solution. It costs both .."Up Front" and in the long term .

Wasted money in my opinion. But, that's only MY thinking. Chris

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob? Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters. Let's try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if we can, they come here for help, not to be beat up. I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Many ways to skin a cat as they say. I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" soon, a Triangle Tube Prestige is on my work bench right now. I sure hope all of you "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive. I have listened to you pro's and I will report back as to how the Trinity works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners.

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob? Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters. Let's try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if we can, they come here for help, not to be beat up. I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Many ways to skin a cat as they say. I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige is on my work bench right now. I sure hope all of you "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive. I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the Trinity works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob?

Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters.

I wish the "pro's" here would try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if they can, we (homeowners) come here for help, not to be beat up.

I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Uses more gas than a new condensing boiler for sure, but it has worked flawlessly, for 8 Minnesota winters. That's a lot of run time! Many ways to skin a cat as they say.

But with higher gas prices coming....

I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 is on my work bench right now. I hope all of the "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive.

I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the Trinity works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob?

Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters.

I wish the "pro's" here would try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if they can, we (homeowners) come here for help, not to be beat up.

I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Uses more gas than a new condensing boiler for sure, but it has worked flawlessly, for 8 Minnesota winters. That's a lot of run time! Many ways to skin a cat as they say.

But with higher gas prices coming....

I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 is on my work bench right now. I hope all of the "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive.

I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the TT Solo 110 works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob?

Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters.

I wish the "pro's" here would try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if they can, we (homeowners) come here for help, not to be beat up or called names. Name calling is not very "professional" if you ask me.

I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Uses more gas than a new condensing boiler for sure, but it has worked flawlessly, for 8 Minnesota winters. That's a lot of run time! Many ways to skin a cat as they say.

But with higher gas prices coming....

I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 is on my work bench right now. I hope all of the "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive.

I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the TT Solo 110 works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

scotty_2

Boob?

Why so harsh? Why call the man a boob?

Tankless water heaters work fine. Boilers do have their place but so do water heaters.

I wish the "pro's" here would try to refrain from bashing homeowners this year if they can, we (homeowners) come here for help, not to be beat up or called names. Name calling is not very "professional" if you ask me.

I'm one of those homeowners and for 8 years I have been using a Myson 325 DV tankless wall hung water heater to both heat my home and provide endless hot water. (With buffer tank) Works just fine. In Minnesota. In a 2700 square foot home. Uses more gas than a new condensing boiler for sure, but it has worked flawlessly, for 8 Minnesota winters. That's a lot of run time! Many ways to skin a cat as they say.

But with higher gas prices coming....

I'm going to be installing a proper "boiler" in the next few weeks. A Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 is on my work bench right now. I hope all of the "pro's" that keep saying that only a "boiler" will work are correct, because this unit was not cheap and it will require a lot of re-piping, new pumps, indirect water heater, etc. Expensive.

I have listened to the "pro's" and I will report back as to how the TT Solo 110 works after this winter, but go easy on us homeowners. Yes I will have a "pro" do the gas and combustion work. The rest I will do myself.

Spudwrench

relax!

Chris,
FYI, the Takagi installation manual DOES provide diagrams for using the Tk jr for space heating purposes, so I am using it in an application the manufacturer has considered. Yes, it probably isn't optimized for space heating, but I hardly think that makes me a "boob" for using it as such. I can buy almost FOUR of these Tk Jrs. for what a condensing boiler would cost, and for my money I'm getting a microprocessor controlled, fully modulating burner with 85% AFUE. What's so wrong with that? Even a cast iron boiler would cost double and be less efficient. If you can provide a technical explanation of some major flaw with using it in this way, I'm all ears. It's been reliable so far.

Nathan

Scott Gregg

\"Probably\"

Spud,

I would not loose too much sleep over it. Copper fin boilers have been around for a good while and are basically the same as a tankless water heater.

I think it will shorten the life of the Takagi (or any other tankless) to use it this way. However, as stated below, the cost difference is so low that once you factor in energy savings of the full modulation and the initial cost difference, I think you will stay ahead of the curve money wise and certainly space wise.

Please do us all a favor. We do not have enough data to really know first hand how long these things will live when used like this. We are all just guessing! Please post back regularly with your results on energy consumption and the performance of the heater and system. I would like to know how your square footage energy costs compare with similar houses heated with boilers.

I have seen a lot of these believe it or not. One (A Noritz job) in a 1960’s apartment building in MD with the original steel pipe and CI rad job. 6 Noritz replaced three CI water boilers and serve 6 separate zones. It should not have worked well but it does! I think these systems will work fine for long enough to prove a viable alternative when boilers are not acceptable for space or price reasons. Unfortunately, I do not have much long-term evidence to back this up.

Tom_35

mfg recommendations

Takagi does show radiant use for their instantanous wter heaters. Although we haven't installed them with radiant, I know of several contractors that have and the systems have been running in excess of 5 years.

J.C.A. obviously would rather use boilers, which is certainly his right. Calling a home-owner a "boob" leans toward being out-of-line, especially when the manufacturer shows that it is indeed a recommended procedure.

Tom Atchley

Spudwrench

Results

Scot,
Thanks for your thoughts. Our gas consumption per sq. ft./ dd is probably pretty poor (the Takagi heats the first floor of our 1878 baloon-framed two-flat, there's NO insulation in the walls, lousy old double hung windows and only nominal insulation in the attic.) So, I think our gas consumption is more a function of the building rather than the heating system. As for reliability, I'll post after we make it through our second season.

Nathan

Scott Gregg

Tighten 'er up

This sounds like the house I just renovated. Mine was a 1900 balloon frame, clapboard sided federalist style. No insulation in anything and the wind literally blew though it when I bought it.

It is now tight as any new home and probably as good or better insulated. This will be the first heat season for it with central air and heat, but the 1800 sf was cooled to 76* in July (a month of 100* days) for $67!

Insulate it and replace the windows. It can be done easier then you think. Insulation can be blown in from the outside by either removing and replacing siding or from the inside by drilling holes at floor and ceiling levels for each stud bay. Trim hides the holes after it’s done. The envelope of the building is more important that the heat source.

By the way, my house…Noritz LP fired tankless water heater mounted outside with Peerless Pavilion hi-velocity heat/A/C system! Tankless does heat and DHW for the whole house.