Steam Problem - DF

RonWHC

Customers are trying to stretch "turn on" time to next week.
Lot's of stuff to do between A/C off & heat on.

Dan Foley

Problem

This job had plenty of them! The boiler is a LGB installed 3 years ago. Apparently they had steam venting out of the boiler feed pump so they solved that problem with a "master" trap. Now, many radiators do not heat. Note the dresser coupling as well - nice!!!

A steam to water heat exchanger feeds convectors in an adjacent building. The boiler runs at 8 PSI in order to lift the condensate from the heat exchanger to an overhead dry return and then into the pump receiver. Apparently this wasn't working well so someone cut an F&T above the bucket trap which wastes the condensate to a floor drain - doubly nice!!!

The motorized valve was installed to prevent overheating the steam radiators when the heat exchanger was calling.

As you can imagine, the complaints are high fuel bills, banging and water hammer, and no heat in many of the radiators.

I thought about the possibility of removing the steam to water HX and installing a hot water boiler to feed this zone. The problem is that this would leave the steam boiler grossly oversized. I also thought about tapping below the water line with a water to water HX controlled through an aquastat to avoid steaming. I am open to suggestions? TIA -DF



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown

Dan

Is that PR Valve in picture 7 reducing the pressure to the radiator side of the system and if it is....is it functioning? Another question is whether anyone has ever checked the radiator traps (if equipped) for failure. All it takes is one radiator trap leaking by to pressureize the return side of the system and prohibit other radiators in close proximity to not heat. Usually the standard of seven or eight coats of paint on the traps is a dead giveaway that they have never, ever been serviced. Finally, the motorized globe valve....is there a drip and trap after that valve to get rid of the condensate which may accumulate when it shuts? This could account for much of the hammering. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Manager of Training

Burnham Hydronics

U.S. Boiler Co., Inc.

Christian Egli

St George slaying the dragon

To add my thoughts.

I kind of like the solution to slit the two systems, water and steam. Better yet, convert the adjacent building to use steam directly, maybe this is real easy to implement.

Is your current steam boiler still is good shape? After taking in lots of fresh water since the heat exchanger is piped to a drain, I would suspect severe lime build up problems. And if there is chemical treatment I would suspect large sludge deposits.

I see the level control has been freshly looked into, has an older one already been silted up?

I see a big spot on the boiler and the smoke pipe seems quite rusted, it's hard to tell from the picture, but is it possible the boiler is passing excessively hot flue gas?

This would explain high heating bills too.

So, if the steam boiler is already in trouble, then you've got half your decision made.

Surely, there is a dragon hiding there somewhere.

Mike Reavis_2

Hey, but look at the nice job that they did on the insulation!

I don't know if this will help, but if the boiler is larger than 6 sections, the gas-train will accomodate low-hi-low firing with a controller.

The LGB can be ordered with 1.5" inspection ports, and brass plugs. I would assume that if you wish to tap a section or two that the "bosses" for this purpose are on each intermediate section. You should contact the factory for some guidance however. The end sections have tappings c1 and c2 @1.25". There is also M2,M4,E2, and E4 @1"

Mike

RonWHC

Looks like a fairly new

LGB. 12 or smaller. Here goes.

Repair/replace traps as necessary.

Remove the VBF. Replace w/ a lower profile boiler feed unit. 60 gal Sterling would give 15 minutes of condensate for a 12. More if the boiler is smaller.

Now the H/E drip can probably be piped into the boiler feed tank, thru an F&T, w/o having to go uphill. Lower the pressure to what the regulating valve will allow.

Add a drip w/ trap on leaving side of heating system steam valve. Replace motor w/ 4 minute opening & closing motor (our SOP on valves 3" & larger). MH Series 60 or equivalent. That, w/ the trap work, should stop the bang on valve opening. The traps will last longer too. The motor is probably being opened/closed by a 60 minute Heat-Timer. Consider a Tekmar 269, whose cycle can be matched to take advantage of the readily available steam pressure.

In order to assure h/w sufficiency & control, w/ a below water line H/E, each section should be tapped & manifolded. Don't remember any bosses on the LGB.

Can't see where the gas regulator vent is going. Not to the non-standing pilot, I hope.

I'm right around the corner. Wanna look? Your turn to buy.

RonWHC

Maybe you could invite

Mike too. He needs a break from Munchkins in Silver Spring.

Steamhead (in transit)

Simplify as much as possible

I like the idea of a separate hot-water boiler too. Maybe that W-M can be down-fired so it won't short-cycle. If not, a water-to-water HX below the waterline is the answer.

Try your best to take that system back to gravity return. This way the boiler-feed pump and a whole bunch of traps can be made to disappear, eliminating many moving parts. I'll bet that boiler has plenty of water to fill the system with steam at low pressures.

That system looks like it's been band-aided to death. Each band-aid caused more problems than it solved. I know it'll run much better after you straighten it out!

Dan Foley

Steam Problem

Thanks for the comments and ideas, everyone. I'll let you know what happens.

Ron, this is just over the bridge in Clarendon. It's my turn to buy so bring Mike along. I have a tight schedule this week so maybe next week? -DF

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"