Help! Plugged boiler-like cement

Firedragon_4

bad you better run it with the doors open after cleaning, clammy's theory could be right on!

Saggs

Went to clean a 6 sect peerless ect steam boiler, customer said it hadn't been cleaned in"a few years". Wow! I had to use a long bladed sawzall just to open up the gap between the sections. Then 18"long 1/4" pilot bits to drill thru the cement like deposits to get into the chamber below. I've never seen anyhting like it. I don't know how he had heat last year. I spent 3 hrs trying to open it up but it's still plugged tight between all the pin slots down thru. Any ideas? someone said try water and heat. I think they had it under-fired, it can go up to 2.75gph and they only had a 1.6gph in it. Any help would be appreciated,it's starting to get cold...

Firedragon_4

Open the windows,

pull the smoke detector batteries and get it hot, hot, hot. Internal boiler water=240F plus. Have the doors and clean-out plates exposed, loosened and ready to come off.

When it finally gets hot, open it up and wash it down with water, but the trick is heat, you're really steam cleaning it. If the water is going in and not cleaning, it's just not hot enough. As we explain in our book 'Combustion & Oilburning Equipment' a garden sprayer is ideal for this procedure.

Don't forget to put the smoke detector back together when you're done. I normally keep my keys in with the battery in the cover.

Much success, you can do it!

Constantin

... and if Firedragons approach does not work...

... you could always break the boiler down to the individual sections and jackhammer the stuff out. :-)

But seriously, I wonder at what point it makes more sense to just abandon the older system and put in a new boiler? This kind of situation sounds like good money being thrown after bad decisions in the past. Is the lower firing rate the correct one for the house or do they need to go even lower?

Steamhead (in transit)

Try

a flue brush with wire bristles if you haven't already.I like them for cleaning Peerless EC and JO and Weil-McLain 68 units. R.E. Michel sells them.

If that doesn't get it, try washing it out. George "Firedragon" Lanthier describes this in his excellent book "Combustion and Oil-Burning Equipment" which you can get on his site, www.firedragonent.com if you don't already have it.

Then make sure the burner has all the latest upgrades such as pre- and post-purge, proper head and nozzle etc. But you know that.

These boilers, like the JO and the 68, won't plug up if the burner can produce enough static pressure and is set up properly.

On Edit: FD, looks like you jumped in while I was double-checking to make sure the procedure was in your book like I thought it was!

Saggs

Thx for the quick responses. Is there any fear of cracking the cast iron w/ the water being sprayed/ pored onto them? It is way beyond "cleaning brushes " of any kind but I think the water trick should work. May this need to be done several times followed by a thorough cleaning?

Firedragon_4

Thanks for the plugs Frank,

and yes I was probably posting as you were. Great thing about the Internet is like an old party line phone, lots of input from up and down the line.

Firedragon_4

No damage, just

lots of heat to do it right!

How hot do you think a steam boiler gets?

I've done three sections to 300 hp fire tube boilers and as long as it's hot, one shot is all it takes.

Can't say it enough, biggest mistake, not hot enough :-)

BTW, Constantin has a point although I think if they won't get it cleaned they won't spend the money for a new one, JMO!

Is that my ole buddy the Everclog (JO-JOT)? Try putting it on warm start with a 110 temperature in the boiler, good luck though for the reasons already mentioned.

BTW, don't do this for cheap!!!! I used to tell people that the garden sprayer was filled with a 'highly concentrated decarbonization and desulferizing fluid' and that it cost beaucoup $$$$$ a gallon. Pay me now or you will pay me later, FACT!

Bernie Riddle_2

I've been there too a few times, with Burnham boilers. I had a special tool made out of steel flat bar(about 30" long) that fits in the slots between the heat pins. Weld a piece of 3/4" pipe on one end for a handle, and you can drive out that nasty hard stuff. Also helpful for cleaning out caked soot is a "Soot Saw" sold by RE Michel(part #7M077).

clammy

check for water leak

did you fill the boiler past the water line it quite possilbely could have a steam side leak which has caused this promblem .I have seen this on weil 76 and old peerless jto units only found out there wasa steam side leak on the boiler after a month later when i was called back for no heat and found the unit in the same condition .The big tip off is that they are allways way underfired it's like nobodt ever wanted to clean it in the first place ps check the chimmey and smoke pipe if the pipe and top side of the boiler is whisle clean you got a leaker peacec clammy

Weezbo

You did well to identify the\" cause\"

there is some likelyhood that what you are abou will reveal more profound problems...i also agree that a slaker as i call them will help clean some of it.if the "Pins" are really deteriorated you may have a boiler that cleaning wont help in fact may make the situation worse.

so here is my word on the subject,There is some possibility that when cleaned ,other problems may reveal that in this condition it is difficult to ascertain...and that these problems may be contributing to the current condition...you may very well need a new boiler.you are welcome to get a second opinion if you would like.as cleaning it this way is time consuming and will need to be rechecked tomorrow again ...

what you would be looking for is water traces along the inside of the fire box,water on the floor,steam on a cold day leaving the stack when you drive up to make the check, also any badly deteriorated pins after cleaning that fall to the bottom of the fire chamber, these may be similar in constituion to the "cement" like material now lodged in the passage ways of the boiler,yet distinctly in the formation of a pin.. like i say cleaning it with high heat and water alone can only do so much. a stainless steel slaker on the flat thru should get it to a point where it will at least function . the front and back sections are the place to open first in the process.

make sure you have at least one extra relife valve that fits the boiler in your bag BTW....

Saggs

I have to put all new 9" flue pipe on it as the condensation(flue acids) have eaten it up.I'm going back on wed. to give it the steam cleaning. I'll let you know how it comes out. Thx

clammy

Thanks firedragon

I've seen this quit a few times a dead give away is the drastic underfiring .I will tell you that i have lost customers because they thought i was lying to them but after cleaning and firing them up and white water vapor pouring out of there shot chimmeys they still didn't believe me and the boiler run 24 -7 in cold weateher and they never got heat .Well a 6 section boiler rated at 1.75 gph firing a .65 cause that all that would give your any draft without shooting flames out the peep should be a indication huh may be .Sometimes not worth it just clean it tell em there heats the beat lie cause that's what they want to hear anyway .Remenber we don't want another hero they just want heat peace clammy

Firedragon_4

It's always amazing

to me how many people don't know that firing an ASME Rated boiler at less than 75% of the maximum firing rate essentially voids the listing and therefore the warranty.

GAMA feels the same way, so there goes the I-B-R and S-B-I rating too!

soot_seeker

nagging question?????


how can he fire it up at all to 'water clean it' if it's plugged thick? it would smoke all over the place. i'm assuming you mean 'after' it's cleaned - yes?

2nd question: it was mentioned above to keep the JOT warm @110F during the off cycle. what aquastat mechanism are you using to do this?

this sounds like you'll need one aquastat (say the low) set @110F to close/make the TT on a falling temp below 110F (to keep the water warm @110F during the off cycles) & another aquastat (the hi-limit) to allow the boiler to get up the 140-190F heating range. this is fine for the hi-limit but on hot water, the low aquastat is usually a 'break on falling temp setting (set at say ~135F)' to open/stop the circs from running & allow the boiler to recover.

how are you changing this?

ss

Firedragon_4

As long as he can get the

burner to run, it will run. I have had back-pressure up the wazoo, but I've got them running, sometimes with just small cracks through 'the concrete'.

Other times, I've poured in small amounts of water as it heats to break it up, whatever it takes, but I hate a decarbonization unit (vacuum cleaner).

As to temperature. If it's a system with non-integrated controls (all separate) it's just a matter of turning up or installing a low-limit and off ya go!

If it has integrated controls, you can get around this several ways. With burners with T-T terminals on the primary bring a low-limit in through there like the old steam systems did it. This will work with controls like the L8124, L7124 and the new L7224, but it won't work with the R8182.

Ah location, you're thinking and you're right! If you can find a hole in the system, go for it or I've drilled my own in boilers, etc. But, the fastest way is a strap-on like the L4006H or L6006C.

L4006

We'll have lots of stuff like this in our new control books due out this Winter, solutions, solutions, solutions, FACTS!

A fellow tech,
George Lanthier