High Efficiency Condensing Gas Boilers Got One??

Tom_61

HELP!! With the cost of natural gas reported to be going up 50-70% I am thinking of replacing my 18 year old 75-80% efficient boiler, standing pilot light, no vent damper with a new Weil –McLain Ultra 155 93% efficient boiler. Is this the best boiler,are others boiler mfgs. better? A 5 year warranty for parts and labor and a 15 year warranty on the heat exchanger looks great. How does this compare to other mfgs? Is this technology too new, have all the problems been worked out?

My current cost of natural gas is about $2200 a year, house is about 3,000 sq. ft. built in 1987, 3 zones about 160' of baseboard, 80 gallon tank for hot water. How to I calculate the pay back by switching to a new boiler? How much it will cost to install a new boiler? I am located in Warren County, NJ, anyone service the area and has experiance with these type of equipment?

Thanks for your help.

Tom

Bob Schultz

Options

Another boiler to consider is the Lochinvar "Knight".
I've installed both the ULTRA, and the KNIGHT, and to be honest, I prefer the Lochinvar. Easier to install, easier to set up, and easier to troubleshoot.
Warranty is similar, and efficiency is similar. The Knight was introduced a couple of years after the Ultra, so there was better technology available. Three out of Five Ultras we have installed have been nothing but problems.

Constantin

Good morning Tom

I'm not just a homeowner, I make a pretty good effigy also. :-P

I think that you are on the right track with getting a low-mass, condensing, modulating boiler. I have read multiple reports of people saving 35% (and as much as 45%) gas per annum with a condensing boiler when they replaced a standard atmospheric boiler. That should help you with the payback calculation.

I would check to see if anyone is listed for your county in Find a Professional. Just enter the zip code and you should be off to the races. I would ask for a heat loss calculation, then size the boiler to reflect the maximum heat loss of the structure.

With that much baseboard I think you will be OK, but only a room-by-room heat loss calculation and comparison vs. the emitters there will tell the whole story. Said professionals will also advise you on the cost of installing the equipment. Prices are not discussed on this site as a form of netiquette.

As for what boiler to choose, I think it depends on a couple of factors. First of all, which ones are legal for installation in your area? Some states like MA like to have their own rules and regulations, approvals, etc. Thus, boilers, tubs, and other "plumbing" equipment that is legal to be installed elsewhere can be illegal in MA. Your local professional should know what is and what isn't approved in NJ.

Instead of setting your heart on one boiler, I would query the professional which boilers he or she has installed in the past. Once you have made a choice re: contractors, I would stick to boilers that they are familiar with, for which there is good local support, etc. Quality of installation and maintenance are among the most important factors in the life of an appliance, all other things being equal (construction, water quality, etc.).

Other appliances to consider are the Buderus GB142, which also has an aluminum heat exchanger. Sporting a stainless heat exchanger, the NTI Trinity, HTP Munchkin, Triangle-Tube Prestige, and the Viessmann Vitodens are also available. I am partial to the premium-priced Vitodens due to its beefy construction and long track record.

Floyd_17

Thats funny......

I've installed many Ultra's and have have very little trouble, in fact I would say much less trouble then any other boiler that I have ever installed. Quite possibly the "problems" that you are refering to are because the installers didn't take advantage of the many oppurtunities that WM has give to "learn how to properly install this boiler.
As Connie has said, there are many high eff. boilers out there, I happen to think the the Ultra boiler gives very good value for the money and I have people that give me great support also. There isn't a single boiler out there that is any better than the person that installs it!!!
Do your homework, find an installer that you can be comfortable with and knows how to install high eff. equipment. You can have the best equipment installed wrong and totally screw up the "system eff.".......

Floyd

jeff_51

my two cents

the GB 142 is a dream. Can't even hear the thing running. A very easy install. When we first fired it up the system water temp was 71 degrees. It heated the system 100 degrees in 17 minutes. They have been going out the door so fast around here, ther are 60 on backorder. Just remember, they may be new in this country but have a proven track record of over twenty years. The electrical connection has to be drilled for hard connect because they are set up for OS but that is no big deal and DO make your first gas connection before you hang it on the wall, much easier that way

Tony_23

Ditto

Same here.

Ron Schroeder_3

just for the record

The GB 142 may be a dream but it does not have a twenty year proven track record. To my knowledge, there is no aluminum condensing heat exchanger that has a twenty year track record.

My .02 worth.

jr_6

Track record

I believe the GB 142 has been on the European market for at least the twenty years you question. It has only been over here for a short while. Great company, excellent equipment.

[Deleted User]

according to their own forum

Buderus has not received an H stamp for this boiler. It is only ANSI approved as a water heater. German engineering and history notwithstanding, This is North America. If you want to play here you need to follow the game rules here.

Tim_24

Ultra Track Record and Stamp

For the record, the aluminum heat exchanger used in the W-M Ultra Boilers has a 15 year history, the last 3 in the US and NA. The HX does have an "H" stamp and is a 30 psi block.

Tom_61

Thanks!

Thanks guys for all the information, it is very helpful. I just need to find a contractor that has installed these types of units. The few contractors I have called have heard of them BUT have not installed any YET! I would not want someone to learn on my installation based on your comments. I am leaning towards the Weil-McLain unit ONLY because the company has been around a long time and I assume they will be here in 15-20 years when I need parts for these units. I guess the long term track record is still out; however it looks like they have been in Europe for a long time. Any ides what changes, if any, they have to make to sell the units in the USA and what affect, if any, they may have on the longevity of the unit?? Once you get them up and running have you had many call backs and if so what for?