I need advice

Ed Lentz_2

And I think I have learned alot from all you guys. Thank you. I have a question. My heating system is a staple up job I did myself. Last year I fashioned a towel warmer from 1/2 copper. Nothing fancy just something to hang them on. I connected it to the loop that was heating the bathroom The bathroom is not the only room on that loop. Anyway, I want to change where that warmer gets its warm water. I have a 50 gal water tank that I heat off a separate loop from the boiler. Would it work to take a tee off the loop to the water tank? It would be a total of 30' of 1/2 pipe round trip to the warmer. I would take off the boiler side and then back to the return side. My feed to the tank is 1". I have a taco 007 to move the water. My fear is that I won't get any or much circulation because of the (path of least resistance) issue.

Comments????

Thanks alot!

Ken_40

It's always a poor idea to

use domestic hot water to do double duty/heating. Be it HWBB, radiant or any other form of drinking water coupled with heating. The reason?

Stagnant issues and "dad" spots are breeding grounds for catreia.

Heat with a boiler. Bathe with a water heater. Fundamental.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Presuming that your problem is that the towel warmer isn't performing...

Supply the towel warmer from the DHW tank itself. Best if you can supply such via GRAVITY! Maintain an upwards supply slope and a downwards return slope. Nice if such is integrated with a GRAVITY domestic hot water recirculation loop.

To produce warm and fluffy towels, towel warmers need HOURS.

Ed Lentz_2

No No No I want to heaat the towel warmer from the boiler loop that heats the water in my tank. Not use DHW through the warmer. I guess the wife also sees this towel warmer as a second heat source for the room as well.

don_156

if code

in your area would allow a 6 gallon electric water tank to be used thats the route I would take.

Sound like you have a cold start boiler.To fire the boiler just to handle the towel warmer is crazy.

100% electric and a gravity feed works great in my area.

Ed Lentz_2

I think I didn't make myself clear. Here's a rude and crude drawing. There is a taco 007 on the feed side from the boiler. The water will only flow when the there is a call for hot water to be made. Typically during a shower.

Thanks

[Deleted User]

Sure, that will work but...

it will take away from the recovery factor of the DHW heater and may cause gravity reverse thermosiphon, keeping the rack hot when you want it not...

Maybe if you throw a TRV on the rack it would help.

ME

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Don't believe that I'd try to pipe it that way Ed. Indirects really want to transfer as much heat as possible as rapidly as possible--ideally they'll transfer the full output of the boiler.

Unless your towel warmer is utterly huge (and not covered with towels) it will transfer heat at a much slower rate. Whatever flow you get through the towel warmer will be essentially robbing heat that needs to go to the indirect. If a significant portion of flow goes to the towel warmer, the boiler may well be forced to cycle (or cycle more frequently) during a DHW call with a corresponding increase in recovery time with resulting decrease in efficiency.

Even with 180F+ supply temp, think AT LEAST an hour to produce a warm, fluffy towel. Much longer than any reasonable shower and likely much longer than any reasonble DHW call.

Don't think of a towel warmer as being a "radiator".

I've been through this. Have a Myson B-29 towel warmer as the highest, farthest element of my gravity domestic hot water recirculation system. Have experimented with various water temperatures--at times MUCH higher than considered "safe". 2-3 hours for a nice fluffy towel at about 160F. 4-5 hours at 140F. 10-12 at 120F.

Keep the warmer loaded with towels at all times and even in the summer it won't add much heat to the room.

Maintain constant or nearly constant circulation through a towel warmer and as long as it's constructed with materials considered safe for potable water and able to handle domestic water pressure you won't have to concern yourself with "bugs" any more than with any normal residential DHW system.

Ed Lentz_2

OK I think that repiping from my indirect would be a bad idea. You mentioned a small electric WH and gravity feed. Just learning about some of this, would it be right to assume that gravity feed would be that the towel warmer would provide the "circuit" from the input to output to the water heater? Thus when the water is heated it would rise and circulate to and thru the towel warmer?

Thanks for all your time

GW

Hello Ed

I don't think your pic will work. As far as gravity without a circ... I dunno, don't think so.

I skimmed though all the replies; is this just an on-off system? I'm gueesing "yes". For a cheap way out, can you cut in a couple of scoop tees of your hardest working zone?

What you're trying to achieve is not ideal, i guess we call it a micro-zone (do we call it something else?). Someday when you upgrade to a new boiler go with a euro with constant circ and outdoor reset, then you'll be in business.

PSSST, don't tell anyone I mentioned replacing your boiler, some people here get all worked up.

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Ed Lentz_2

Hi Gary,
In my drawing I (being a HO, didn't give all the info) neglected to mention that my system isn't that simple. If you look at the new pics, I have a Taco 007 moving the DHW zone to the Super Stor. The "Towel Warmer" is right above the boiler. I don't think I will be changing the boiler anytime soon, it is only two years old. I installed it myself with the help of a boiler installers help. It sure doesn't look as good as what you guys do, but I puff my chest out when I show it off. The towel warmer is a rube goldberg affair as you can see, it right now is in series with the staple up for the zone in that room. Works OK when the floor needs heat. Not so much when it doesn't. We thought that maybe we could get more heat by coming off the Super Stor when it wants heat. But, most of the suggestions are against that, and I am leaning on not changing it now. Any other suggestions?

GW

OK

I don't think your water heater will call for heat all that often, unless you have a house full of teens. Is that injection system an on/off on sonstant circ? Can you set up your boiler with a Tekmar and smarten it up? Tekmar has some sweet stuff.

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Ed Lentz_2

Gary, Yeah that is a constant circ Viega Stadler injector/pump. I am using a Stadler Basic control system with outdoor reset. Is the Tekmar control more sophisticated? No teens here, just us empty nesters.

Tom_66

Aquastat Temp

What is the temperture for a hot water boiler?
What should the aquastat be set on?The temp on my boiler
only goes up to 178.I think it should be higher than that
for baseboard heat.Thank you for your help.
Tom

GW

That makes sense, why then don't you simply cut in a couple of tees on the lines for the constant circ?

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Ed Lentz_2

Gary,
The recirc is my staple up. That temp is constantly fluctuating. Except for now it is a balmy 145 with the outdoor at 5. I was looking for a way to get it nice and toasty just before we need them. My wife actually suggested to T into the DHW loop. That way we might get hot water when the DHW was cycling, during a shower.

GW

OK, I must have missed something along the way. You want a fast blast of heat for comfort, not steady heat for traditional heating needs; I didn't catch that part.

My two cents is you need a small heat exchanger to connect to the DHW, then you can send that 130 or whatever temp into the warmer. I don't quite understand the "teeing onto the DHW coil", it would only heat when the DHW tank is calling... not much of a run time. i guess it would work, but very limited heat output.

Gary

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Ed Lentz_2

Thanks Gary, sorry about my descriptions of what I want to accomplish. But you got it. Our thought wast to take off the boiler loop as in my drawing. Thinking that I would get flow when the Mega Stor wanted to heat the water. That way the rack would get warm only when water needed to be heated. The more I hear from you guys and the more I think about it I think I will leave well enough alone. Maybe I'll get an small electric water heater and hook it up like someone suggested.

Thanks for your help.
Have a good Bowl day.