Help! One Pipe Steam System Needs Exorcism

mel rowe

Trying to post a before picture on my boiler as installed, as well as one after I repiped. Having trouble getting the after picture to attach. Will send another message to show that.

mel rowe

One Pipe Steam System Needs Exorcism

I am totally convinced that my system is infested with demons. It now seems intent on turning itself from steam to hot water heat. I have excess water throughout the system. I can hear it sometimes in the pipes, and many of the TRV's I installed gurgle and spit. Some of you may recall that my 300k Utica boiler was installed with only one 2 in.tapping. Over the summer I repiped with a second tapping and 34 in. upfeeds into a 3 in. header. with 2 1/2 and 2 in outlets into the two mains. With the two tappings, the velocity went from 54 ft/sec to 27, which I figured would be a big improvement. So far I'm not so sure. Someone previously suggested that I clean the boiler good with Rhomar, which I have done twice. Another suggestion was that the Honeywell Braukmann TRV's were causing the gurgling/spitting problem because there was no vacuum breaker built in and this was retaining the water. So I bought a Macon TRV, but it does the same. In desperation, since my boiler is considerably over capacity, I downfired the boiler by about 20%, to see if further lowering the velocity made any difference. So far this is the only thing that has helped, but still some gurgling and an occasional TRV that seems really clogged with water. Other than hiring an Exorcist, any suggestions as to where I might go from here?

Mad Dog_2

You need a Steam-Heating Father O'Malley

To exorcise that beast. We actaully knew the priest from the exorcist. He was the tech advisor and actually played the role - great guy. You really need a STEAM Pro in there Mel. Where are you located? Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

mel rowe

I live in the Detroit area. There is a pro listed in this area and I plan to contact him as a last resort. I was hoping there might be some further ideas I could take care of myself. I am suspicious that the dry return off my 2 in. main might be restricted, but I can't get to it without tearing through a concrete block wall into an area that I hope is a crawl space large enough to work in. I have already replaced all wet returns. Was thinking of even Roto- rooter work on the dry returns, if that can be done, but think I'll wait until warm weather, rather than take a chance of causing a leak I couldn't get to easily. I know the second tapping and the 3 inch header is good, but I wonder if the steam was actually moving slower before, because of being restricted, and if that is part of the new problem. Anyway, I'm very frustrated and looking for ideas.

Unknown

You know the priest

who played Father Dyer in The Exorcist ? That movie and Exorcist 3 still scare the cra% out of me .

Matt is totally right . You need a a bonafide steam pro in there to reaease the demons . But in the meantime , do you have any pics of the repipe you can post here ?

mel rowe

mel rowe

Matt Undy

Where in metro Detroit? I live in Ann Arbor now and have seen a few residential steam systems here but I grew up in Clawson and don't recall having seen any residential steam or hydronic systems using sectional CI radiators in that area...I'm just a little curious about the history.

As for the system, take several good pictures of the near boiler piping, both of the supply and the returns. Any traps and the main vents would be a good idea too, also a radiator and its controls just in case the system was something weird. Make sure the main vents aren't vacuum vents.

This comes to mind here..could one of the experts answer it..with the TRVs, unless for some odd reason the radiators are actually just at the current heat loss of the structure, won't the boiler now be way oversized, won't the TRV's modulating/closing off radiators greatly reduce the EDR available to consume the steam from the radiator?

Is there some sort of support group to help me stop reading these?

Matt

mel rowe

mel rowe

Hi Matt, thanks for your reply. I live in Grosse Ile in an old house that was built in 1929. The original steam boiler was huge (don't know the BTU capacity), but it was replaced with the Utica 300,000. The house originally had very poor insulation and the old steel casement windows that were very drafty, and no storm windows. Since moving here I have put in thermal windows, foam in the walls, and a layer of foam in the attic. Since I'm sure the rads were sized for the old conditions, the EDR of 612 sq.ft. is more than currently needed.

I'm having trouble attaching pictures of the before and after of the repiping, but it is pretty standard, as are the rads and the valving and venting. There are no traps on the system. The only other change is my addition of TRV's to almost all rads. The TRV's only add to the over capacity of the Utica boiler, which is rated at 760 sq. ft. I think you are right on the mark about that.
As for the main vents, there are two Gorton # 2's on the longer main and a Hoffman 75 on the shorter main.
Since I downfired the boiler, there has been a noticeable improvement, to the point that I only occasionally hear the gurgling and spitting. The pressure during steaming holds fairly steady at about 3-4 oz. for most of the cycle and gradually builds to 10 oz. before shutting off, usually with no cycling of the Vaporstat. Lacking any other current ideas, I thought I might further reduce the gas flow slightly, and see if this stops the problem altogether. The thought here being that the steam velocity is too high and putting out wet steam.

Do you think there is any significance to the water in the sight glass rising up about 2 inches, as soon as the boiler begins to steam? As I said, I've replaced all wet returns, but can't currently get at one of the dry return portions of the system to verify that it is clear. Thanks again.

mel rowe

mel rowe

Trying to post a boiler after the repiping. Not too good with these attachments for some reason.

mel rowe

mel rowe

mel rowe

As requested, here is the after photo from my repiping of my Utica 300,000 BTU boiler.

mel rowe

repiping

mel rowe

And here's the requested picture of the repiping results.

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mel rowe

Well, finally got it figured out why I couldn't attach a picture of my boiler after repiping. It was too large a file. For current status of my water problem, it is much better since I downfired the boiler from 4.8 cfm to 3.3 and set the Vaporstat at 8 oz. cutout and 4 oz. differential. I expect this is because of less steam velocity and less pressure at the end of heating cycle (???????). I still have an occasional problem of gurgling and spitting at a TRV, but I think a final exorcism is going to require breaking into a crawl space and checking out the piping there. Definitely looks like a warm weather job, unless something else drastic happens. Cheers.

mel rowe

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