Surge Protestors for Electronic Controls

Maine Doug_52

make an excellant ups. i have used these up to 25kva with appropriate battery banks. the transformer and cap bank will provide about 5 seconds of power after the input power goes off. this provides enough time to switch the inverter on and take up the load. the benefit is high capacity without having to run constantly in converter/inverter mode and reduces power consumption and waste heat.

they were very heavy and one did not casually approach maintenance with the cap bank still charged. you could toss a charged cap to have the terminals land on a beam and it would weld itself there.

Todd_22

Surge Protectors - Hey Perry

I didn't want to hijack your other thread. I am curious how you selected this surge protector - as far as what criteria you need to know to select one.

I noticed that the red light on my computers surge protector is illuminated and won't reset. I'm assuming it has degraded from small surges over the past year and a half since I installed it. Guess I'll need to replace it.

Perry_3

Check out the infomation on \"Brickwall.com\"

Todd:

I have always known that there were several ways to construct a surge protector.

Option 1: Do some kind of fast switching circuit so that you gan "ground" a surge.

Option 2: Have a circuit that can safely absorbe the energy surge (based on RLC circuit).


There are several forms of Option 1 - and the use of MOV's is very cheap. Hence, all of the surge protectors you buy for electronics are MOV bases. Of course, MOV's tend to degrade with use - and offer limited protection (but they are cheap which is the first requirment for comodity goods that can be sold in lots of stores).

Utility grade lightning arrestors use a different switching technology - which is not cheap. There are several other switching methods that have not been comercialized.

I had never before seen an Option 2 method that was sold as a commercial product - although we discussed these when I was in college electrical/electronics classes. They seemed ideal. Some high grade industrial electronic equipment did have Option 2 methods built in.

The Brickwall method is Option 2. The reason you do not see it offered in stores is because of its cost and the required % markup that the distribution chain and stores have (how many people are going to pay $400 - $500 for a surge protector in a store when you can buy another type for $15).

So go to www.brickwall.com and read about things. There is aparently enough of a market that a company can direct sell these items now over the internet.

Not cheap - but well worth it.

As far as boiler protection... I'm going to baby my Vitodens power supply with the best long term protection I could get. Power spikes are what kills most electronics.

I plan to later add a UPS (true sine wave output); but first I have to get my LWCO installed and wired to cutout only the firing circuit.

It is interesting that many high level UPS's want you to put a Brickwall surge protector in front of them to protect the UPS from surges.

They also sell nice stand alone units for plugging in stuff.

Have fun with this.

www.brickwall.com


EDITED to add: Brickwall surge protectors seem to start at $189 and go up from there.

Perry

JimH

Hi, I'm typing this at work on a computer that's getting
it's power through on of the OneAC units. Have you looked
at these? I'm trying to compare and there's a bunch of new
jargon to absorb.

Also, I notice that OneAC has combined power conditioning
and UPS units.

Can you elaborate on why you want a UPS for the Vito? Is there a shutdown process that needs to be performed, or are
you bridging to standby generation?

JimH

Perry_3

Jim

I don't know enough about the details of the OneAC units to really comment.

The fact that they use an isolation transformer is a good sign. That will be more robust than just MOV's (and the isolation transformer abosorbes small spikes). However, isolation transformers are not that costly (a few dollars per) and others have used them paired with MOV's.

Now perhaps they have more inside their units than just an insolation transformer and MOV's for surge protection - and maybe not. I don't know.

An isolation transformer is not even close to what a ballanced RLC circuit like the units at Brickwall.com can do.

As to why I want to add a UPS. This area gets a number of thunderstorms in the summer - and an occasional short power outage anytime of the year.

Turning electronics off and on are also not good for them - and a surge protetector does not eliminate the loss of power when the lights flicker - or go out.

Also, should power go out for a half a day in the winter, I can run the Vitodens and Taco 007 if I have the right size UPS for that period.

I would have added a proper sized one when I put the boiler in - but I was concerned that it would overide a normal LWCO that cut the power to the recepticle. I have since learned that I can tap the LWCO into the control circuit as an input in the same area where you wire all other inputs and outputs (and you need to switch a jumper on the control board).

UPS's that offer true sine wave output and will power the Vitodens and 007 for most several hours - or more - are not cheap. But that is what I will get.

Oh, I don't recall your OneAC power units talking about providing true sine wave output on the main web page (perhaps it is buried in the tech specs). That is really best for many things. The ultimate in power conditioning.

I note that purchasing a UPS to run a boiler is a lot different than purchasing a UPS to run a computer or other electronics. Computer UPS's are sized assuming a low load factor. For boilers you need a much higher load factor (or consider that the computer UPS will only last say 1/2 as long as you expect). I will need to brush up on the details when I get ready to purchase one.

Perry

JimH

oneac

It appears that OneAC uses custom isolation transformers,
and although I don't know a lot about electronics, I would
think that the level of protection provided would be at
least as good as the reactive inductors used by brickwall.

Their UPS's do claim to provide true sine wave power.

Their units are generally smaller and more expensive than
brickwall, and they seem to be geared toward datacenter,
medical, and telecom uses.

How big a UPS do you think you'll need to power your vito
for half a day? Have you considered using a much smaller
UPS to bridge to a NG standby generator?

-JimH

JimH

hefty!

Okay, I just took the cover off my OneAC unit (18ga. steel)
and found no sacrificial components inside. I found one
large resistor and several beefy capacitors, along with
a *massive* isolation transformer! This thing weighs at
least ten pounds, and it's only a 360VA unit!

Thanks for the tip on Brickwall. It looks like a good value
priced unit that delivers a lot of (non)bang for the buck.
I'm definitely buying one for my home PC.

-JimH

Steverino

There is also a conditioner known as ferroresonant. As I recollect it involves a specially designed transformer used in a tuned circuit (capacitor across a winding). They were used to clean up power. Maybe that is what is in there.