Primary Pump Circulation

Weezbo

180 degrees F cannot touch a micro air resorber:) Technicaly. They are Bad Bad to the Bone :)

the good thing is that they are designed to make many pinner bubbles and scrub the fluid flow of the entrained air so it may be released through the air relife portion...and any other functioning air relife within the system... good reason to have one is for the times when new water is introduced into the system... *~/:)

Eric_31

Primary Pump Circulation

I have a 6 year old Hot Water Heating System. There is a seperate pump to run the circulation on the primary loop. I have a digital switch to run the pump for DHW, relays attached to the pumps running the HVAC water heating and another relay running a pump for the radiant floor. The whole system is closed with check valves after each pump except the radiant and primary circulation. The problem is that if the main circulation pump is running I get no hot water for the DHW or the HVAC. If the primary is off then it works normal. I also have too much PSI which I found out was probably due to the fill valve. Any thoughts on what may be wrong besides the fill valve replacement? Perhaps that may solve the circulation problem?

ALH_4

photos

Is there any way you can post photos?

Eric_31

Pictures

Here are the pictures.

Unknown

well Andrew...

Well Andrew, you got your pictures, I'm all lost looking at them... Maybe better if he drew a diaghram?

Empire_2

Not sure if this is a dumb question, but

Is there any priority control on the zones that do not heat? Are the pumps actually running?

Mike T.

ALH_4

photos

hahahahha

Yeah I can't make heads or tails of it from the photos.

Weezbo

I think,without looking at the pics ,

that it is a priority switch that is controlling both the circs. or at least allows the both to function, though one may not be, only enabled ,during DHW production.

i have looked at the pictures and there are two take offs prior to the primary they seem to go Up and reappear on the far right on a return headder prior to them is another take off to a circ....that must feed two takeoffs for the Indirect and the other coil.. beneath that returns the radiant loop and beneath that the domestic...then the coil? then there is a couple closely spaced 1 1/2" 'T's' that i think might be the connections for the boiler. is that close?

i dont see the return connections for those two so i think, that they are tied into the return on the boiler and split somewhere to supply the two off the first take off prior to the two take offs that feed the two circs that head Up...

so i think the first take off on the supply headder feeds both DHW and the coil..although i see a seperate circ for the DHW...i dont see one for the coil...so i would hazard a guess it is the control on the first circ that takes off the primary..

Eric_31

Drawings to help explain

I have attached the design drawings and have included my notes with more specifics about the products being used. The only changes are that I have changed the controls (Honeywell) to digital 2-stage controls for the Boilers and their respective pumps and the DHW 1-stage control with the sensor now in the sensor well. There is presently no priority settings anywhere.I have also tested all pumps and they seem to be working fine. I was perhaps wondering if the check flow valves perhaps are clogged?

Weezbo

So, *~/:)

How am i doing ,so Far?

Eric_31

Air Problem in HVAC Water Coil

I have had a plumber come and fix the pressure problem. he changed the fill valve and added with a new fill valve a T&P pressure relief valve and pressure gauge so that I can now see how much pressure is coming in from the cold water line. Now I still have an air problem with the HVAC water coils. I have watts auto air vents and have replaced them last year. Since I have just started to run the heat again from straining the lines yestaerday for the fill valave repair I am still having to manuaaly remove the air through these watts air vents. It just doesn't make sense to me that I would have to do this. I Hvae read about spirotap air vents....perhaps this is a better solution?

ALH_4

Air

It sounds like air is the recurring problem? Have you tried shutting off the Spirovent? That Spirovent is on the suction side of 4 pumps. That could be pulling in air.

Eric_31

Spirovent Shutt-off

How do you shut off the spirovent? The increase in air in the system could it be caused by the circulation pump? Lets say if there are a faulty propellers?

Eric_31

Spirotop Air vent

I meant these instaed of the watts air vents.

ALH_4

spirovent

Does your pressure hold steady whether the boiler is hot or cold? What is the fill pressure now?

Is it possible that there is enough junk in the system to have partially clogged the Spirovent? That looks like the most likely point of restriction. Does all of your pex tubing have an oxygen barrier?

That's a drawback to the Spirovent in my opinion. There is no good way to shut them off. They mention it like it is a feature, but if the vent starts leaking don't you want a way to shut it off until it can be serviced? I have heard of people using a piece of rubber hose slipped over the vent discharge as a temporary measure.

Eric_31

Pressure holding steady

I have 2 boilers. The 1st which is electric(Stage 1)and the 2nd(Stage 2)is propane. The pressure is holding between 20psi(cold)and 25psi(hot). The fill pressure is now 18psi. Not sure what you mean "Does all of your pex tubing have an oxygen barrier?" I haven't tried to examine the spirovent for debris. perhaps I will try that when the temperature gets back to normal, presently -17 celcius here.

ALH_4

flow

I don't see any other reason why the DHW wouldn't work as long as the controls are all functioning properly. Who knows what could be in there. One thing about Spirovents and others like them is that they can act as a filter if there is anything floating around in the system.

I am at a loss to explain the air problem. After the initial purge and once you vent the remaining air it should be fine, particularly with the Spirovent.

Eric_31

All seems well

After the fill valve repair and manually bleeding the air from the system all seems to be well. I have left the 2 flow valves in open gravity position after the pumps for the HVAC coil. I may try to close them to normal operating position and see if that also works. I want to thank all for their help and comments. After the winter I will be checking the sprirovent for any debris.