thermostat - can it be found?

Chris_82

In MA if the tenant gets cold, regardless of windows, the landlord will loose, period! All they have to do is make a phone call, anytime, night or day! And the landlord looses! Makes you wonder why they are in this buisness in the first place. So go ahead and reccomend hideing the tstat or forcing the tennant to do this or that...are you listining Allen? Do you really want to keep your building? And if you get caught in Brockton...you will loose big, that court is very, very pro tennant!

allenh

thermostat - can it be found?

So we have people cranking free heat, windows open, and so on...
Does anyone know of a thermostat that is made that has a high limit of 70 or 72 and a low limit of around 55 (so things do not freeze)? It has to be non mercury as this is Massachusetts. Prefer a very simple one without the time sets.

lee_7

most honeywell have a high and low temp setting in installers setup.

FredR

thermostat-can it be found?

Ditto on the Honeywell. They offer some with Dept of Defense specs,which have lower ranges. You might have to contact a Tradeline dealer.

BillW@honeywell

Yes, we do.

TH8110's have range stops and keypad lockout. TH6110's have range stops. The manual, mercury-free T87 N & K rounds have a mechanical range stop accessory, Part # 50010944-001. Thermostat guards are alos available in a variety of styles. Any Honeywell distributor willl have them.

John@Reliable_13

Heres something that we do sometimes...............

for Brockton Ma area landlords. Leave the thermostat in place but disconnect it and install a "temp stat" bulb,these were designed to be used during constrution. You can buy them to work at a set temp from 50 degrees and up. They are easy to hide in a dropped ceiling or behind the thermostat plate and the tenant thinks they are still in control.Over the years I've seen what tenants can do to "temperproof" controls and found these to be foolproof.

Long Beach Ed

Tenants?

If this is for a rental, the animals will rip the thing off the wall and twist the wires together.

If that's the case, consider using a remote sensor made by Tekmar that looks just like a blank switch plate. Use tamper resistant screws and dill the holes with epoxy painted with white-out.

LB Ed

allenh

thermostat - can it be found?

what is the size and price of this item? Trying not to have the plastic box over the thermostat. There are a few of us landlords looking for this setup.
To my knowledge this state will not allow separation of zones and billing to each unit accordingly.
Last year I found out that one apt can go to 87 with a window open in each room. How I found out.. the call came in that mold was growing on a bedroom ceiling.? Arrived with suspended ceiling to just install. Found shades pulled in bedroom (very little mold that I could pull off with a putty knife), windows facing north, and a water bed and humidifier in the room. It was one of those 10 degree outside days last winter.

BillW@honeywell

The TH8110...

will also work with a remote sensor. The sensor is a smaal plastic box with no adjustments. 2 wires back to the S1&2 terminals. Stat is mounted up to 200 feet away.

Chris_82

In MA,...

yes, this state does allow separate utilities to any apartment; at your cost as you probably already know, (for meters, piping, equipment, etc.). In which case all of the utilities can be in the tenants name and responsibility. Getting water meters to individuals can be a problem because of the local water supplier’s attitude, but a lawyer in any town in the commonwealth can fix that problem, regardless of what the utility tells you. In Boston most all landlords are moving towards individual services, due the MWRA costs, which frequently construction costs pay for themselves, but the local water supplier fights this every time. As far as fooling the tenants, and I sympathizes with your plight, I really do, if they catch you, you will be in housing court faster than you can say, I'm just trying to save money. In which case you will be paying for free rent as well...one of the problems with steam...play by the rules or get out of the rental business...we have been asked many times to partake of this line of thinking and in "Boston" we no longer entertain these landlord tenant issues, we as most reputable companies should, walk, away from your line of thinking.

allenh

To my knowledge we are not allowed to install separate meters in forced hot water systems and bill accordingly. FWIW - its been done in Scandivia for years where water temp is measured and gallons taken measured. Here separation of heating systems means separate boilers and a 27.5 year depreciation for the installation which makes it quite expensive.
Yes the state now has domestic water metering separation if the following are done: all low flow fixtures and a licensed plumber verifying that lines from individual meter go to the apt. However, there is still one water meter per building, that bill comes every 3 months, block rate billing applies (the more used the higher the cost regardless of number of units), if tenant moves middle of billing period its an issue, a separate company must install and rent the meters, and that separate company gets around 10 dollars monthly for the billing. In this state the ciites are not able to figure out how to bill each apartment although I have heard that every other state in the country has figured out how to do it.
I am not trying to fool tenants. I am trying to eliminate them wasting fossil without replacing boilers. Imagine paying heat, going into an apt, windows are open, and people are walking around in bathing suits, and its 87 degrees. Its frustrating.

ML_3

I had the same problem with a couple of buildings that I own. Fixed it by installing Johnson Controls' A419 remote sensing thermostats. The sensing bulb is in each apartment with the control in the boiler room. I left the zone thermostats in the apartments to allow the tenant to adjust the heat but I set the A419 to lift power from the circulator at a preset temp. It works like a charm, it gives the tenant some control over their enviroment but allows me to set the max temp at a resonable level. To combat the open window situation I lower the max temp in that apartment to the state dictated level of 60deg for two weeks whenever I find a window open. It hasen't happened twice.

In one building I figure the payback time was about a month, the oil consumption was that much lower.

ML

Chris_82

What's the point of giving advice if you don't listen,...

Once again, I used to service, ten years ago, over one hundred apartments for Sufolk, Peabody, and Campanelli, amongst others in and around the boston area. Don't lecture me about what can and can not be done. You are obviously looking for the easy way out and are convinced of your point of view. All of these apartments were converted at considerable cost to individual services. And the issues you speak about go away!!!

Boilerpro_5

A simple, efficient solution.....

is to install full outdoor reset on the heating system in the boiler room, if it is hot water heat. By setting the reset curve tight to the building needs, no one can get above about 74F in thier unit no matter how high the thermostat is set. It also compels tenants to close windows and storm windows in the winter, because if they don't the apartment gets cold. If steam , I suspect a properly installed and adjusted heat timer will do the same.

Boilerpro

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