Dan, Homeowners, L8148s' and Rinnai

jp_2

but these little transformer are of high school electronics class. and yes you can buy one anywhere, thats life move on....

MIke_Jonas

Help me to understand..

I read and replied to an earlier post about what I think is a homeowner and his/her problems with taco parts, L8148 transformer, etc. What I can't get over is Wallies lining up to help this guy out!! I came home and smelled smoke? This doesn't set off alarms?? He changed out the transformer, what 2-3 times? I know he said he couldn't find anyone "competent" to fix this, but how hard did he try? Was his conversation with his current hvac guy, the one who said L8148's were "junky", over the phone? He sure found a wholesaler to sell him transformers, eh? This wholesaler did not become alarmed? This wholesaler has NO ONE that works on Taco or boilers? I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, I've had L8148 transformers fail, never burn up, just fail to output any voltage, and I've either had to change out the whole aquastat or take a transformer out of a new aquastat. Does Honeywell offer a direct replacement for this transformer, because I've never seen one. So what kind of transformers was this guy cobbling in place? And then we have the Burnham "Factory Rep" come on here and nudge him along. I'm sure gald I don't sell Burnham boilers in that guys area. Can anyone say "liability"? I desperately want to belong to this community, I'm working on my schpiel for a find a contractor listing, but how come you guys help out a homeowner who is so far in over his head as to be dangerous? I understand helping a homeowner out with a radiator that doesn't heat all the way across, or the pipes bang, but helping out someone who came home and smelled smoke?

Then you Wallies want to beef about some guy selling Rinnai to homeowners on the web? If I'm a homeowner, I buy one, try to install it, and if it doesn't work, I'm sure there's a long line of people on here that will help me dope it out.

Now, put your salesmans' caps on, and tell me why this is accceptable. Make me understand, because I truly want you tell me how and why I'm wrong about this. Because if I'm right, and someone DOES burn their house down, they'll certainly have a paper trail of all the stuff they were told by "professionals" on here about how it was OK for them to fix it themselves. Then we'll certainly know how to say "liability"

Kevin O. Pulver

I think you have a point...

There must be a fine line between generously sharing information and foolishly giving away knowledge that should be paid for, and possibly incurring liability; either legal or ethical. I am almost always on the receiving end myself, so I usually feel obligated to pass information on to those who ask me also. I'm not sure where the line is... Kevin

Darrell

Why I posted.

OK, I'll tell you why I answered the post in question.

I first assessed the poster. His posts seemed to be honestly seeking information. He has involved men whom he believes, and I assume, are professionals. He doesn't sound like he's trying to beat anybody out of a nickel...he asked four times for somebody in the area to come to his home. He is not in any immentent danger of burning his house down...he does have a control issue in that they keep popping the transformers...which are designed to do just that in this scenario as a safety. He also has two professionals that are stumped. That is how I assessed his posts...just like I do when my phone rings.

I then gave information, not only to Dustin, but to his electrician, and to his heating guy, and to every other Wallie that read the post...every one of which has struggled with exactly the same issue...and alot of them apparently have not discovered the relatively simple solution or how to come to that solution. That is the very core of this site...experience teaching inexperience in a forum where age, location, looks, business size, and dirty fingernails do not matter.

I also participate in this forum because somebody, (somebodies), once took the time to teach me. They also taught me that knowledge is not mine to keep...it must be invested in others or it grows stagnant. They taught me that not every telephone call should be viewed as an oppurtunity to part a person from their money. Sometimes a bit of neighborly free information goes a long long ways to forward the cause of the industry, and consequently ones own business.

I'm grateful that these mentors in my past, and present, didn't flush me when I got, (get?!), stumped. It is not mine to judge the competence of the two presumed professionals involved...that is for Dustin to decide...maybe the heating guy just thought himself into a corner...maybe he just needed somebody to nudge his thinking abit...maybe he is doing the best he knows how to put diapers on his baby, maybe whatever.

It seems obvious to me that the majority of the readers of this site are heating professionals looking for that next tidbit of information that will make them better at what they do, and thus more useful in their community. They also come here because they have information for those seeking it and have learned the value of sharing it. I don't get the feeling that they come here for a chance to show off their immense wealth of knowledge for their own self-glorification. I'd like to think I'm useful in sharing that tidbit...and smart enough to find the tidbit that I need. This site, very smartly, uses real life circumstances to bring all of this information to light, and I have gleaned many tidbits from men that I will likely never meet. They have, in fact, helped me build my business. I envy some of them the friendships that are so evident here.

I do not offer help to just anybody. If the potential Rinnai buyer comes to this forum seeking information in the attitude that was protrayed in that post...the answers will be very different. In the same manner, I do not go on every call that comes to my telephone, for the same reasons.

Norm Harvey

I completely agree with Darrell

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

DanHolohan

Yep.

Me too.

Dave Larsen_2

very well written......

couldn't have said it better

MIke_Jonas

Respectfully,

I'll have to agree to disagree.

I disagree that transformers are there to burn up. I disagree with wholesalers that sell to homeowners. I saw nothing in the OP that mentions 3-4 attempts were made to find a contractor to come out. The wholesaler knows of no one to refer this HO to? No yellow pages, no internet yellow pages, no neighbors, no co workers, no one in this HO's area ever has had any hvac work done by someone that can be referred to?

I agree with all of your points about posting here to help each other out, to learn things we may need to know or use at a later date. All of that posted about sharing information, I agree with and will say was very well put.

But, no where in the L8148 post does it say an hvac pro was involved, other than what I take to be a phone conversation. I see nothing to indicate that an hvac pro was there, along side this homeowner, throughout this ongoing ordeal of burning stuff up. If I misread this, and a pro was there all along, and that is who we are dealing with and not a homeowner by himself, point it out to me and I will understand and support all of the responses. I will respectfully disagree with you when you say you posted to help out a fellow electrician and hvac guy, when I see nothing to indicate any pros' are involved. I will agree to helping out a fellow tech, however new or experienced.

My belief is, helping a homeowner, over the internet, while continuing to burn stuff up, is patently wrong.

Unknown

Darrell

You put into words exactly how I feel about this website .

100 times better than I ever could .

Thank you . And I completely agree also .

Tony_23

are you kidding ?

Anybody can buy transformers at thousands of hardware stores, etc. Same goes for 8148's.

If the guy wants to waste a few bucks smoking transformers you can't stop him I don't think shorting a transformer and smoking it is going to burn his house down.

You want to see something a homeowner really botched and IS dangerous, see "Makes you wonder" thread.....

Jamie_5

paid people present

From the original thread:

"The electrician appears quite competent and has looked at all schematics and compared to what he saw..."

"I had an electrician check and test all wires."

"...I would be glad to have a 3rd pair of eyes involved."

"My heating person, as a test suspecting some possible issues with huge voltage, put two transformers in tandem."

The statements cited above strongly suggest that both an electrician and a heating contractor have been on site and used their sight and reasoning skills.

Additionally, as evidenced by the OP's diagnosis of the shorted thermostat wiring, he has at least some understanding of the system operation.

The poor guy had a malfunctioning heating system. An electrician and a heating person both looked at the system and were unable to solve it. Why is anyone's guess...Sometimes in troubleshooting one forgets to think in basic terms about what pieces are involved in a particular process or what's required for the system to operate as designed. If there's a diagnostician out there who has never made such a mistake, I'd like to meet him or her.

This person asked for recommendations for a further professional. It is safe to assume he did not think such a person would work for free, so it's also safe to conclude the original poster was not simply looking to save money. Notably, no one suggested anyone in his area.

He came to what is likely the premier American web site related to discussing similar issues and received on-point advice. It looks likely that the problem will be resolved. Other readers probably learned from the thread. (If nothing else, it served as a reminder of what diagnostic steps to take in similar situations.) To me, that is evidence of the Web site working as it should.

In summary, if not short, I don't see a problem with the thread.