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Can't remember a winter like this

Larry (from OSHA)
Larry (from OSHA) Member Posts: 727
in THE MAIN WALL
Said he wants his old winters back! Global warming aside, my barber told me today he had to retrieve his submerged ice house off the lake on new years day. Not fun getting a call from the local sheriff saying "do you know where your ice fishing house is?" OK, so we do weird things here in Minnesota like fishing on frozen lakes, but - an inch of rain and temps above freezing in December here in this part of the country is very, very unusual. I think my design day temps just went up. Today it is 5 degrees and more typical but this is just way to strange.

Larry

Comments

  • John R. Hall
    John R. Hall Member Posts: 2,245
    Still \"balmy\"

    Here in S.E. Michigan we had a little snow back in late November that barely stuck to the ground. Since then it has been in the 40s-50s and rainy, including today. I can't remember a winter like this and I've lived here 53 years. It can't be good for the heating guys. You can only tune up a furnace so many times.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Maybe Ruth Spencer

    will file another report and take your mind off things?

    :)
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    not quite balmy here

    It's supposed to be -33 tonight, though last week it was 50...crazy.
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    60F here in Swampeast MO at 8:00 p.m. with light rain. Flood watch was issued Tuesday for the entire weekend with inches of rain forecast.

    200 miles west in Springfield, MO it's 23F with freezing rain. 100 miles north in St. Louis, MO it's 32F with freezing rain. Ice storm warnings in place for the diagonal between Springfield and St. Louis. Serious icing expected throughout with near apocolyptic icing possible--think forests leveled as they were around Hot Springs, AR a few years ago.
  • Joe_75
    Joe_75 Member Posts: 57


    -20 here last night but the weather man says it will warm up to about -5 tonight.
  • Wethead7
    Wethead7 Member Posts: 170
    winter

    Well somebody was wining and it finally came. Here in KC it was neat 60° on Thursday and today it might make 20°. Monday we might make single digits!!!

    Quit you darn complaining and enjoy that nice warm temps you have!!

    Mike
  • Maine Doug_52
    Maine Doug_52 Member Posts: 71
    It is

    66 here in Baltimore where the Ravens are going to pound the Colts. GO PURPLE!!!

    No steam today Frank.
  • realolman
    realolman Member Posts: 513
    Is that right?

    Well, I certainly would have thought the Ravens would have pounded the Colts. As a Steeler fans It chokes me to say it, but i was rootin' for thr Ravens. I just thought they were a far better team.

    Beats me.
  • joel_19
    joel_19 Member Posts: 931
    winter?

    What winter??? just had a local oil company lay of 22 guys not good at all here. Towns up north who depend on snowmobiling for a majority of their income are in serious serious trouble. we are trying to jump start our A/C season based upon this craziness but folks just don't think about it till May even if they are playing golf in january.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Plumb Bob_2
    Plumb Bob_2 Member Posts: 3


    Don't forget, global warming is only a theory. Further studies need to be done. Scientists don't all agree. Any effort to fight global warming would be bad for Business. I will believe in global warming only if our President, who is my leader, says I should.
  • Maine Doug_52
    Maine Doug_52 Member Posts: 71
    Purple Pain

    in Balmer today I'll tell ya. Nothing like having the city's old team leave town a second time with a win.
    But it's 57 here now and 17 at my other home.

    My friends with the ski mountain are hurting but may be able to make enough snow now.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Self-Governance

    "I will believe in global warming only if our President, who is my leader, says I should."

    Without politicizing that, (I voted for him twice without enthusiasm given the choice, full disclosure), I enjoin anyone regardless of opinion to keep an open mind and use their own judgement, studied information and common sense, rather than taking the word of anyone regardless of whom they are.

    Essentially though, I agree with you in that global warming or more accurately the cause of it, is but a theory. The root physics give nature the edge as the cause. Man-made CO2 is less than 3% of what nature makes herself.

    Water vapor has over 26 times the greenhouse effect of carbon dioxide (95% versus 3.62% for CO2). The rest are marginal gasses such as methane, nitrous oxides and other gasses such as Argon (think low-E windows here for the effect).

    Also, sunspots trump cow flatulence, let us not forget. Anyone who has played "pull my hoof" with Bluebelle understands this, or should. :)

    Take water vapor out of the equation and the normally second-place CO2 jumps to a percentage way out of proportion to the others and can look huge on a graph.

    In other words, no point in discussing CO2 without water vapor in the equation. That is like ignoring gravity and air resistance in a discussion of ballistics.

    Factor in that 99.995% of water vapor is natural and that 97% of the "3.62% effective CO2" is natural and I for one sleep well at night. Heck, if it really is warmer out we burn less fuel so the "man-made CO2 is responsible" group can sleep well too.

    The earth is not a stable place. Never was. We give ourselves too much credit to change things with marginal contributions. The earth is probably warming up as it has in the past.

    It will also cool again, with or without us.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Paul_11
    Paul_11 Member Posts: 210
    Inconvenient Truth

    Before talking about the various issues you raise, I just wanted to know if you did go see Inconvenient Truth.

    I also wondered where you stand on evolution. Do you feel that the human species evolved over millions of years out lower forms of life on earth?

    Respectfully,

    Paul B. Shay
    pshay@arealgoodplumber.com
    LMP 1307
    LMFS 654B
    OUR MISSION: TO PROVIDE WORLD CLASS PLUMBING, HEATING, AND SPRINKLER SERVICE TO EACH AND EVERY CLIENT WE SERVE, FAR EXCEEDING THEIR HIGHEST EXPECTATIONS!

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Since 1990, I have made steam systems quiet, comfortable, and efficient. We provide comfort while saving the planet.
    NYC RETROFIT ACCELERATOR QUALIFIED SERVICE PROVIDER

    A REAL GOOD PLUMBER, INC
    NYC LMP: 1307
    O:212-505-1837
    M:917-939-0593
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,337
    Your response is one

    of the reasons I love you Brad.

    Jack
  • Paul_11
    Paul_11 Member Posts: 210
    opportunity to sell efficient systems

    We could see this balmy weather as an opportunity. It is the shoulder seasons when our energy efficient systems can save the owners real money by making their heating systems function like they were much smaller boilers and not overheat their buidlings. Lets not forget that we size boilers for the coldest days of the year but how many do we really have?

    Respectfully,

    Paul B. Shay
    pshay@arealgoodplumber.com
    LMP 1307
    LMFS 654B
    OUR MISSION: TO PROVIDE WORLD CLASS PLUMBING, HEATING, AND SPRINKLER SERVICE TO EACH AND EVERY CLIENT WE SERVE, FAR EXCEEDING THEIR HIGHEST EXPECTATIONS!

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    Since 1990, I have made steam systems quiet, comfortable, and efficient. We provide comfort while saving the planet.
    NYC RETROFIT ACCELERATOR QUALIFIED SERVICE PROVIDER

    A REAL GOOD PLUMBER, INC
    NYC LMP: 1307
    O:212-505-1837
    M:917-939-0593
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Inconvenienced

    Yes, I saw it, twice and with an open mind. It was breathtaking. Actually the leaps of logic and conclusions drawn were breathtaking. Sort of like a rooster crowing as the cause for the sunrise. More holes than a Taliban Rec Room.

    Evolution (the theory of evolution) is a different topic entirely as is creationism. Even Darwin knew it was but a theory.

    My beliefs are just that and irrelevant to this topic not to mention immaterial this forum.

    Regardless of what anyone believes, we are here anyway! :)
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    I love you too, Jack-

    Sorry to miss you at the Boston Big Ugly! (At least I thought you missed it. Shame on me otherwise!) And I only had a seltzer and a diet coke, so no excuse.

    Thanks, Jack.

    Brad
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    Brad....*~/:)

    here is one of my Weezboisms...

    when having these disscussions i like to remind everyone of another very true thing...


    to the Question ..


    "What are you Doing Here?"...

    and a couple snide remarks ,insinuations ,weebly attempts at attacking my charater,...

    my two favorite replies are "Occuping Space". and answering a question with a question,.."If YOUR so Smart,..What are YOU doing HERE?" :))


    that usually stems the tide of the bs and gets everything back to focus on the reality of our existence:) so i can get back to work...


    Last night it warmed up to about 28 above! so i went and reset the bypass valve to deliver maximum flow throught the system and take some rough measurements of system return water and boiler temp..i am real habby with the work the BTU's are Distributed nicely:) the return temps are an average of 78F few days ago it was like 39->50 below zero ...my fluid temps have change dramatically with the addition of insulation Vapor barrier and sheetrock to the walls and ceiling...being the Control on the temporary heat is a full time deal :)) once i get the Vitolas and the controls lashed up i may get some well needed rest... my Spring starts (houses raised to the deck or slab)...usually begins around March 4th ..i have plenty work till then.

    i have been considering working shifts...5a.m. to 5 p.m. and 5p.m to 5 a.m. instead of working 24 7 :))
  • Leo G_99
    Leo G_99 Member Posts: 223
    John,

    it is just the gods of Lotus Land (Vancouver/Seattle) that is allowing you Easterners, to see what we have lived with for years! The local newspaper had a cartoon with a couple of panels, in the first you see a chap on the phone bragging about just finishing a round of golf, in the next panel, we see that it is a relative from Toronto, putting our noses into it, like we in Van. usually do to them!

    Right now we are experiencing our SECOND round of snow followeed by freezing temps this season! Kinda nice having the snow stick around for more then a day! This weather is fine, it is the torrential downpours and near hurricane velocity winds that have me shaking! Been without power twice so far this season, VERY STRANGE!

    Our famous Stanley Park, has had THOUSANDS of trees blown down! Pictures from the air show vast swathes of areas that look like a good ole fashoined clear cut! Cedars that were over 400 years old, knocked down like toothpicks! Some of these trees were more then 12 feet in diametre at the base!

    Is this just a "one off"? I guess we will find that out in the years to come!

    Leo G
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    The Ravens blew it as usual

    professional sports has been dead in Baltimore for a couple of decades now. All we have are embarassing wanna-bes.

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  • Leo G_99
    Leo G_99 Member Posts: 223
    Hey Brad

    What about this hypotheseis? Our Earth has slowly, (yes I'm an evoloutanairy) over millions of years, taken that excess carbon out of the atmosphere, in forms of coal, oil (let's not get into the discussion about oil actually coming from the earths' core, which is another hypo, that I enjoy) methane ice, etc. As the carbon was slowly stored, the temps on the surface gradually cooled and finally reached what has been good for our species (mammals) need for life.

    Now, over the last 200 or so years, we, humans have been taking these millions years of work that the earth has done for us, and reversing its' effect by having released back into the atmosphere untold amounts of carbon?

    Also, we have stripped many forests and jungles, so the ability of our earth to recapture these carbons has been reduced.

    Ya think there may be some credence to this one?

    Leo G
  • Leo G_99
    Leo G_99 Member Posts: 223
    Steamhead,

    don't forget, your town is the only American city to ever have won the Canadian Football Championship! The Grey Cup! Which is much older then the Super Bowl! Also, since relocating to Montreal, that team has been back to the Grey Cup more then any other, though like Buffalo a few years ago in the NFL, have only won it one more time! So you can see, your town is actually very unique!

    Leo G
  • Steamhead (in transit)
    Steamhead (in transit) Member Posts: 6,688
    Maybe the Ravens owners

    should clean house, get rid of the incompetent Billick and his clowns and hire your guys away.

    The only thing most of remember from that team was the legal battle over the Colts name.

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  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Not a whole lot, Leo

    Like anything else it is all a guess (not a challenge or refutation, just that we do not know). I have to default to my understanding of physics. What we do know is that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. It can change form but the atomic elements remain unchanged while they join and unjoin in various compounds. The Earth and it's elements is finite short of picking up the occassional meteorite.

    The earth routinely releases carbon (principally in the form of CO2, methane and other compounds) and absorbs it again in plants and the oceans. Much sub-sea CO2 of volcanic origin is absorbed into seawater, much comes to the surfaceThe usual carbon cycle. Anthropogenic contributions are minute in comparison.

    The amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere measured in the past are limited by the ability and accuracy of the means to measure, especially in hindsight. Ice cores from so many hundreds of years ago show various amounts of CO2 but also chloroflourocarbons...clearly not even invented at the presumed times measured but there they are.

    There are more plants and trees on the planet now than at any time in recent history. Occassional deforestation here and there, sure, but hard to kill a jungle. The US has more trees than in 1900. Forestry practices have kept pace for a number of reasons, including preservation of the industry.

    Judging by my backyard (lawn? It is a meadow thank you), those carbon-munchers are breeding like rabbits on Viagra.

    Forgetting the carbon cycle, water vapor is the biggest so-called greenhouse gas on earth. The fact that you feel more comfortable with cloud cover versus a cloudless winter night illustrates the radiant reflective effect of water vapor. Throw in a few solar flares (solar activity rules) and a few other factors beyond our control and you have something. Not that we have had no impact, but it is far less than can be supported.

    Hardly the final word, but I just cannot reconcile the GW group-think with basic principles of physics and knowing that the Earth has never been a stable place.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • JimH
    JimH Member Posts: 89
    no real evidence that smoking causes cancer either

    I certainly have to admire Michael Crichton'd sense of the absurd. Not only
    does he stand in opposition to thousands of the world's brightest and
    best scientists on global warming, he also refuses to accept the connection
    between cigarette smoking and cancer!

    http://www.michaelcrichton.net/speeches/speeches_quote04.html

    JImH
  • John R. Hall
    John R. Hall Member Posts: 2,245
    Leo

    Since this thread now has a mind of its own, I'll tell you this. I am very familiar with Stanley Park, having visited Vancouver several times. My Mom was born there and all of my first cousins live there. I'm taking the family with me in September when I visit Victoria Island for an HRAI meeting. It's a truly beautiful part of North America!
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Its SNOWING in southern California...

    and the citrus crop is in real danger of being lost. There goes the price of orange juice.

    Now, about that global warming theory...:-)

    Personally, I think it is an Alqaida plot to divert attention away from the REAL problems, like pourous borders...

    ME
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    Back to the topic John

    Looks like our "Indian summer" is about to end. Punch up the two week forecast on accuweather.com. Looks pretty normal for January to me.

    By the way, batten down the hatches tonight and tomorrow my friend. It'll be slow going in the morning.
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    porous borders

    ....real problems like porous borders allowing American manufacturers to send jobs overseas in the name of short term profits.

    As I see things, that is the real #1 threat to America, not global warming or even terrorism.
  • Brad White
    Brad White Member Posts: 2,399
    Poor Us Borders

    You got that right, Andrew.
    "If you do not know the answer, say, "I do not know the answer", and you will be correct!"



    -Ernie White, my Dad
  • scott w.
    scott w. Member Posts: 211
    april in january

    Here in beautiful western Pennsylvania we too are having balmy weather. Fifty something and raining.

    Does any one remember the winters of 1976/77 and 78/79? Absolutly brutal.....

    How about the winter of 1985/86? If I remember correctly February had no snow, abnormal temps, and for W.Pa., almost every day was sunny which was extremly rare!!!!

    The climate moves in cycles and I don't think you can blame just one thing.

    Throw in a solar flare or two(really big ones as I understand), bit of nasty pollution from China, India, Russia and the rest of the developing world, volcanic activity, destruction of 40% of the rain forrest in South America, rapid pole shifts, enlargement of the deserts in Africa and China and eventually you just might have something that could add up to a disaster at some point.

    One thing you can be sure of, the weather, it be a changin!
  • John R. Hall
    John R. Hall Member Posts: 2,245
    Batten down the hatches, eh?

    Ahhh the beauty of a home office.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Mid 60's today

    in your Nation's Capitol. Bone chilling when compared to our previous high of 77* in 1932. Wonder what folks were saying back then?
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
    What they were saying in 1932

    "Brother, can you spare... a dime?"
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Sunday morning temp in San Clemente...

    ...just over two miles from the coast was 21 degrees F. Lowest I've seen it living in this city for 29 years, 14 of them in this house. Scorching a whole heap of air and helping offset the slack natural gas demand from you folks in the northeast!
  • Brad White_9
    Brad White_9 Member Posts: 2,440
    San Clemente

    Go ahead and use the gas we have not been using lately, Sal. Just give it back when you are done! We will need it soon.

    Nice day to drop into Olamende's by the beach. Hope they are still there. Great Mexican food. Nice folks.

    Cheers from drizzly 37 degree Boston. You have us beat!
  • Mitch_4
    Mitch_4 Member Posts: 955
    so what you are saying weez

    is tat you only want to work 1/2 days in stead of full time now? lol
  • ALH_4
    ALH_4 Member Posts: 1,790
    Weez

    Weezbo, you are the original Hydronic Existentialist.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Olamendi's...

    ...is still there but, due to recent municipal incorporations and the exact spot it's located, carries a Dana Point address. Here's a review:

    http://blogs.ocregister.com/foodfrenzy/archives/2006/06/olamendis.html

    They've also expanded to include a location in Laguna Beach and "express" outlets in San Clemente and Rancho Santa Margarita.
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