New Gas Heat and Now Have Freq. Headaches

Brad White_169

is what I recall.

Being a scuba diver, I spoke to a nurse who was also a divemaster in Curacao where they have such a chamber.

They use it for all sorts of ailments such as slow-healing wounds, CO poisoning (from charcoal grilles used indoors if you can believe it), not to mention DCS from a bad diving ascent. Helps pay for an expensive system for the occasional unfortunate diver.

Saturation with O2 under pressure forces the hemoglobin to displace the very tenacious CO, in short.

Not sure why O2 under atmospheric pressure would do harm-maybe no good- but am open to learning.

Pam_3

New gas heat and now have freq. headaches

Hi, we live in Cincinnati (pretty cold winters) we have had electric heat ever since I can remember...but we just recently bought a newer home (built in 2003) and it has gas heat. Ever since moving in(about one month ago) , I have had major headaches at night (almost every night). I feel good all day at work, but when I get home and all during the night I have a headache. We got a CO detector and it has a 0 reading, so I don't think it is CO. We keep the heat in our house pretty warm (71 or 72 degrees). Could the gas heat contribute to these headaches without it being caused by CO? Should I call someone to come out and inspect our unit? Who should I call?

Any info would be helpful! Thank you!

Unknown

get the gas co

What are you waiting for? For us to read the death notice in the papers? Call the gas company now and while ur at it.. Get a reputale heating company in ur area to come out and dbl check the heating system... Do it NOW1

Brad White_168

GET ON THIS IMMEDIATELY PAM

Your CO detector may not be that accurate or working at all. False security sometimes. If it is moist, the sensor, all bets are off.

The cause could be a simple disconnect or blockage in a flue pipe or something less obvious. GET A PRO NOW. Crack a window at least in the bedroom and make sure the airflow is coming IN, not out on that side of the house. You want to be in a room with airflow coming in on that side. If not, go to a friend's house ASAP.

Your local fire department also has the proper sensing equipment; they go in harm's way and need to know what lies ahead.

If you have a friend with gas heat that is working properly, you can see for yourself that it is not the type of heat but something possibly wrong with your particular system.

Gas heat by itself would not be a headache-producer but Carbon Monoxide, even in low doses certainly is our biggest concern. Low doses over time take a toll.

Call your utility, Fire Department (911 can get you any first responder, tell them what the issue might be and they can get you the right team in place; EMT's also carry sensors sometimes.)

Check back with us, please!

Pam_3

Thanks!

Thanks for your response. The reason I was waiting was because the CO reading was coming back at zero. And my husband is not experiencing the headaches that I am having. But now I am even more worried. I will try calling the gas company now...hopefully they have a 24 hour answering service.

Brad White_168

Everyone responds differently

In the end it may not be CO but the coincidence is so worth checking. Not to harp on it, but to be sure...

You may be the equivalent of a canary, your husband may be less sensitive to the effects.

We all hope it is a function of red wine, chocolate or other headache producers but to give those up is a tragedy, albeit a smaller one.

Let's just not take chances.

Pam_3

Help is on the way!

I called our electric/gas provider and they are sending someone out within the hour. I also have opened all the windows within our room.

I will keep you posted after they arrive. Hopefully it is nothing...but you are all right...better to be safe than sorry!

Thanks for urging me to get help. I at least feel better knowing that we will know for sure if it is CO.

Brad White_168

You will feel better

and we will feel better too- Yes, check back and good luck.

Brad

Pam_3

It is not CO

They came out and tested our whole house and in parts of the house it tested at a level 3 (apparently the utility company shuts down a house at a level 10). So he does not think it is CO posioning or a CO leak! Which is reassuring! But I still think I may have our unit checked out within the next few days. We did not have a home inspection uponing buying the house (it was a forecloser - so it was sold "as is") however the house sat vacant for over a year. And then we moved in and turned evrything on without any inspections. Maybe there is an allergy in the house that is causing these headaches (it is just very odd that I only get them while I am in the house).

But thank you again for all your support. I feel much better knowing at least that it is not CO. I have a one year old who can't talk yet and now I will not have to worry that something is dangerously wrong.

I hope you all have a good night and thanks again! And let me know if you have any more suggestions.

Brad White_168

Good news

I think- at least not having CO to worry about. Great responders you have.

Allergy testing can be arduous and inconclusive but test for obvious things. Mold gets good press but you know what? It is everywhere anyway so raises alarm unecessarily unless there is a blooming and consistent moisture.

Could be dryness in the air, any number of things. Try not to over-think things though! A good physical, blood pressure scan, stresses (you have an infant now , any number of things. Maybe yoga may help?

But at least it is not CO...EDIT: See what Darin says below. He is absolutely right... zero tolerance... what was I thinking?

Now, get back to bed...

Cheers!

Brad

Pam_3

Thanks Brad!

Your right...maybe the headaches have NOTHING to do with our house and EVERYTHING to do with what and who is in the house.

I am signing off and I am so very thankful that their were people like you who respond to worriers like me at all odd hours of the night. Who would have thought it??

Take Care and keep sharing that helpful wisdom! It is rare to find others who truely care about strangers on websites!:)

thanks again,
Pam

Darin Cook_6

A few comments

My company has a CO Zero tolerance policy. There are alot of things that can produce CO. Three PPM means that CO is still coming from somewhere and it could of "only happened" to have been 3ppm AT THE TIME they tested. The source of CO must be found. Are you smokers, burn candles, gas stove, kerosun heater, gas dryer, etc?

Case in point. My partner and myself went to a home to do an energy audit a few years ago. I had walked in with my digital analyzer going and lo and behold my analyzer started showing 4 or 5ppm of CO. They were smokers ( and had just smoked) and had a gas stove. Okay easy enough to dismiss the low CO numbers to that. Part of the energy audit is to check out the heating equipment for safety and operation.

It was a 80% horizontal furnace attached to a masonry chimney. I noticed small pin holes in the single wall galvanized smoke pipe venting into the chimney or at least trying to vent. When the furnace was run "steam" came out of all the pinholes. I go out to the chimney and open the clean-out door and it was completely plugged off with chips and pieces of clay tile liner.

The flue gases had condensed on the cold clay tile liner and made it fall apart piece by piece. The unit itself had been "serviced annually" or so the claim was. When the furnace ran the CO levels spiked in the house because the unsealed return duct sucked up the spilling flue gases ( CO ) in the basement and blew it throughout the home. As it turns out the woman of the house had went the night before to the Emergency room due to bad headaches that had been going on for quite a while. Low level, long term CO poisoning was what was happening to her. The doctors never thought of checking her for CO poisoning.

Okay the point of that story is that a heating professional trained in CO mitigation needs to get in there and find out what is going on. You could try the find a contractor link at the top of this page or get ahold of National Comfort Institute and have them recommend someone to you. I know you take this seriously, as you should, your life is at stake.

Please keep in mind also that most CO detectors sold in stores are NOT low level monitors that make you aware something is wrong and should find out what is going on in the house. In fact there was a study done and up to 50% of the CO detectors taken off the shelf at a big box store did not even work. Most CO detectors sold do not alarm at levels that could be harmful to infants or the elderly. There is some folks on this site who are extremely knowledgeable about this subject and I hope they will jump on this thread and answer any other questions you may have. Good luck in your investigation!







TSGT Darin Cook
Air Expeditionary Forces
Iraq

Unknown

glad to hear

I rechecked the message and glad to hear you had it checked out while Brad pulled an all nighter on this.... As Darin said, any co2 means something and must be checked out.. Perhaps calling Linhardt's heating from your area will pinpoint the problem(s)... Or maybe its your husband......

Techman

Headaches

HI Pam, are you still with us ?Here on "The Wall"that is. You stated that you opened up some widows and called for someone to come out and check the CO levels.I suggest that you close all of the windows,leave the house,everyone including pets, then come back several hours later and have the first person in be the "CO tester person"Let the house run at it's own conditions and then test . Maybe at the end of your work day? Rugs?Drapes?Varnish's?Sheetrock dust?

Jim Davis_7

It is really unfortunate that people keep telling consumers to call the Gas Company. They are the worst when it comes to Carbon monoxide testing and now this lady's life may be in jeopardy. Having spent most of my life in Cincinnati I can guaranteee the gas company is as bad as they come. Her alarm isn't reading anything because it is not allowed to read before it gets above 30ppm. Odds are it is plugged in near the floor and won't read anything anyway. Are we so insecure and unqualified as an industry that we don't think we are the best ones to go on CO calls??? Lets get a second bad opinion and call the fire department. Don't want to tell them to call a contractor that is certified to do CO testing because that is stupid and unnecessary.

Sorry, I just can't believe this is the best we can do when people call for help which might include Joe's post also.

lee_7

i take offense to you bad mouthing a fire department. they do have the equipment and the trainging to test for almost any gas leak and/or hazardous conditions. Their equipment for testing is probably better and more accurate then yours. These firefighters give their time and energy to be the best in the business, just like i hope you do. Most departments where i live are volunteer and get enough problems from the public, you don't need to add to it.

Steve Ebels_3

I think

I recall reading that women generally have a more acute sense of smell than men, especially during pregnancy. (NOT inferring anything here!:) I also recall the same article reported taht women are affected by CO more than men. There also could be something else in the home that she is sensitive to, whereas her husband is not.

But let me back up a minute, she should definitely have the furnace and venting system checked out along with any other gas appliances in the home. Any and all fuel burning appliances should be checked annually in any case.

That being said, the effects of CO will be markedly different on a person who is in the contaminated area all day, like many women, as opposed to someone who may leave the area for an extended period of time, like the man of the house.

Steve Ebels_3

That's a common debate

Fire dept vs the heating tech.

I'm both, having been on our volunteer dept since 1975 and a full time heating tech for 11 years. The bottom line is that the people need to call SOMEONE with the training and equipment to find out what's going on. The difference comes in what happens next. I don't know of ANY fire dept personnel that are routinely trained in combustion appliance servicing and tuning. The heating tech knows not only what the problem is but also what to do about it.

lee_7

I am also both, and while fire department personnel might not be trained in combustion analysis, they are trained in the proper use of their detection equipment. And in the case of an emergency, who will get there first? The heat tech or the fire department. I don't know many techs that have SCBA as part of their vehicle equipment to safely enter structure with possible co2 problems. Just my opinion, but I do agree, it doesn't matter who, as long as it someone.

Todd_11

CO Experts

Isn't about time someone mentioned these alarms? From what I have read here, these are the best CO detectors available.
Also, keep in mind that when you ventilate the home right before someone shows up to test, you may be diluting the actual readings. Please be careful!!! CO is often misdiagnosed.

Jim Davis

Not bad mouthing fire departments, just their knowledge of CO. I have a son that is a fireman. He admits his department or any he has worked with know much about CO. When offered free training they won't attend and this has happened all over the country. Once in a while I do get a fire department that wants to be trained but it is less than 1%. I have been at the National Firemans Convention in Indianapolis and they avoided my CO booth like the plague. I have shown fireman an article that shows 100% oxygen administered to CO victims causes additional brain damage(this is what most EMTs carry) and they just got mad at me. If one would read the reports I have it is because of fire departments that CO alarms levels are so high. Want to make sure people are sick so it not a waste trip. And then most people still aren't treated or checked. Don't question the dedication or heroism of fireman. Bravest people there can be. CO just isn't their expertise.

denny_3

to jim davis

Please include link to article that says 100% oxygen shouldn't be used for CO treatment. I'm not disagreeing but wondering why. What is used in emergency room?

Rich Kontny_3

Sounds Like

Sounds like an indoor air quality issue to me. Your new house is most likely much tighter than your older home.

If this is the case you need to find out if you have proper air to air exchange in your newer house.

This may not have been addresed when the home was built or you may require more fresh air than your husband or even the norm.

Make Peace Your Passion!

Rich Kontny

Douglas Hicks

A couple of years ago, my girlfriend complained of headaches, but only when she was home. She also complained of a "moist feel " to the air in our house. I of course "knew" she was just complaining. I also "knew" that because of my training as an EMT and her training as an RN that one of the symptons of CO poisoning is the red skin color. After reading the CO posts here, I contacted the local gas company. They came in and the moniter started to beep immediatly. They left me a nice red tag on the thermostate and shut off the gas furnace. The new furnace works fine and no more complaints of headaches from my girlfriend. My gas bill also went down.

My advice, get a second opinion. The gas company may send out a different tech, or pay a service company to come & test for CO.

On the fire department comments, I have 25 years of fire service, volunteer, paid and as a training officer/assitant chief. I also have 25 years of service in fire suppression systems and equipment. Most in the fire service do not know anything outside of squirt wet stuff on the red stuff. Because so many have the hero complex, they are unable to admit they do not know everything about everything. Call an expert in heating and wait to call the FD until you need the red truck or ambulance. (That comment will get me in trouble.)

Fireguy.

Unknown

If my information is correct

just applying oxygen without the pressure change will not displace CO which has saturated the hemaglobin and is harder to get out the body than oxygen is to get in. I am not a doctor so I may stand corrected.

Very interesting my new training center is right next door to the local fire station, I have already had some good rapport with the firemen. I am going to offer some gas and CO training to them.

Brad White_169

That is excellent, Tim

The gas and CO training will add to public safety in an exponential way. May word get out...

Yes, regarding pressure, that too was my understanding. CO is rather selfish stuff when it comes to sharing hemoglobin! My EMT certification is dangerously obsolete but even in the late 1970's the training in blood gasses was at best cursory. I suppose the difference being, "what is a first-responder to do (without a HB Chamber in your med bag)?" Probably would have killed for a defibrillator so much have things progressed.

Now that the training and technology is down at the retail level, your proximity to the fire station is a sign...

lee_7

not all firefighter shoot their load on putting "wet stuff on the red stuff". Many put in many, many hours of training. I was a volunteer firefighter and EMT for ten years until I blew my knees. I have more then 2000 hours of classroom training and an Associates Degree of putting the wet stuff on the red stuff. My department has state of the art detection equipment and the training to use that equipment. Stereotyping is bad no matter what the situation. As long as someone is testing for Co, That's all that matters.

Leo

I too am a volunteer FF

I too am a volunteer FF. We had a case and my colleagues responded. It was another FF's home. They determined it was coming from one of the heat sources. They cleared the area of CO. The homeowners alarm had sounded. I went that night and determined it was from the wood stove leaking back when the oil burner fired. Outside combustion air fixed it. They as FF's found it, I as a heat tech figured out how it was happening. Two diferent sets of training involved here.

Leo

Pam_3

WOW!

I'm back! And I now I am worried again! I am still getting the headaches! (And no I haven't called a contractor yet to get our heating system checked out). But I felt relieved once the gas company left. I thought that maybe I just had some sort of allergy. Which still could be true...but I guess I still shouldn't rule out CO until everything has been fully checked out. We DO NOT smoke. We DO NOT have a gas stove - that it electric. We DO have a gas fireplace (although we have yet to turn it on - we have heard how expensive it is to use).

I also think that checking the "indoor air quality" like one poster suggeted could be helpful. We lived in a 20 year old log cabin before buying this house and it had MANY MANY air holes throughout. We could sit on the couch in our family room and we could feel a draft of air. Plus...after having all the windows opended in our house that night for a couple hours...I did feel better (like I could breathe again).

So, thank you to all for all your suggestions! I must get on this ASAP! Like I said before, I have a one year old daughter who could be experiencing the same symptoms, but she just can not tell us...so it is up to me to find an answer! I appreciate all the help and all the concern!

-Pam

Xc8p2dC_2

Did you happen to,,,

Intall new carpets??? a few years ago I had a Carpet Store move in above me and had an Co alarm go off,, determined to be the new carpets [mostly the cheap stuff, no offence]

And having a wife who suffers from allerg'y... MOLD plays a big part in her health, so get the house check for that too, not always visible

Jim Davis_7

CO & Oxygen Therapy

Go to this website- www.sciencedaily.com and then go to search. oxygen therapy brain damage Have to go through several scrolls but the article is there. Lots of articles on how carbon monoxide actually can be good for you-go figure!!

Jim Bergmann_2

Jim here is a direct link to your article

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/12/021204081223.htm

G Lyons

Also check

Sewer gas can come in through any trap etc that doesnt't have water in it, like the floor drain, or loose cleanout caps etc. Mold will do it. Also a water bed can do it, if used over a long period of time without the chemical. Don't give up, this problem may be elusive.
George Lyons

Empire_2

Radon Gas....

Check the Radon levels in the basement preferably, because that is on nagging problem that will not show up on CO detectors. Is your house built in a Shale base? Something to think about. Although the CO detectors are a first line on defense, always get someone with training and a good instrument.

Mike T.

Rich Kontny_3

Please...

Pam

The last thing many of us want to do is have you get all paranoid about your new home and of course the fact that you have an infant naturally causes you to do so.

There appears to be no immediate danger, yet there is something you need to address.There are hundreds of irritants in the products used to construct homes that dissipate with time if you have proper air exchange.Americans responded very well in the eighties by tigtening up what we call the house envolope. In fact we did too good a job and had numerous situations similar to yours.

Even a simple move down the street can put you in an entirely different air quality environment.This forum has a great amount of hydronic and steam experts, but in reality we are probaly weak in "Indoor Air Quality" I would hope that this prompts someone who does both wet heat and HVAC to step forward." Otherwise go to "Carrier Corporation" or "Broan Products" websites for air quality solutions.

You can e-mail me if you want someone from either of these companies to talk to you. Our firm does plumbing,wet heating and HVAC using Carrier products. The Broan Manufacturing plant is 7 miles from my home in Hartford, WI. I have worked for many of the people who work there so I can network with them if you need additional help.

In any case please let us know what you find out as we learn from these kind of problems!

Rich K.

Make Peace Your passion!

Rich Kontny_3

Please...

Pam

The last thing many of us want to do is have you get all paranoid about your new home and of course the fact that you have an infant naturally causes you to do so.

There appears to be no immediate danger, yet there is something you need to address.There are hundreds of irritants in the products used to construct homes that dissipate with time if you have proper air exchange.Americans responded very well in the eighties by tigtening up what we call the house envolope. In fact we did too good a job and had numerous situations similar to yours.

Even a simple move down the street can put you in an entirely different air quality environment.This forum has a great amount of hydronic and steam experts, but in reality we are probaly weak in "Indoor Air Quality" I would hope that this prompts someone who does both wet heat and HVAC to step forward." Otherwise go to "Carrier Corporation" or "Broan Products" websites for air quality solutions.

You can e-mail me if you want someone from either of these companies to talk to you. Our firm does plumbing,wet heating and HVAC using Carrier products. The Broan Manufacturing plant is 7 miles from my home in Hartford, WI. I have worked for many of the people who work there so I can network with them if you need additional help.

In any case please let us know what you find out as we learn from these kind of problems!

Rich K.

Make Peace Your passion!

Christian Egli_2

Indoor air is not the nicest, is it?

Boy this thread reads like a suspense story, and boy is there valuable information. I for one, don't mind at all the mild cat fighting on who's best for measuring the CO - it's all for the good cause. Beyond being anything personal, we remember the story so much better with a bit of added emotion.

Cincinnati has the hottest Fire Museum. It's also the place where the hand cranked water hose was pitted against the steam powered truck. Steam won (of course and after much beer was poured into the matter everyone returned home happy.

Pam, you know you have CO, so now you need to get it fixed. Beyond just a burner adjustment, I'd look into the chimney. After the abandoned years, it is likely it got deteriorated by freezing weather and squatting bugs - raccoons - birds.

I have a feeling your smokestack is no longer sucking up all the flue gasses and whatever doesn't go out, stays indoors. Even with very little or no CO, you'd get the Mercaptan gas odorizer fumes, a sulfurous compound stinky enough to give headaches. You'd also get massive humidity, enough to increase mold activity to allergy causing levels. To me, it sounds you'll be much more relaxed with something new. You can quick check for gross flue draught problems yourself: just feel if air is going into the draft hood or not. If you get a hot stream spilling out of it - you've got trouble, this is not free heat, it's a call for the heating company.

Luckily for the CO cure, here in Dayton, we have the US Air Force operating a giant hyperbaric chamber, a walk in model not just a bed sized one. Large enough to fit Area 51's flying saucers... meanwhile the Kettering hospital does a lot of work and medical research with it.

Don't just ignore a home induced headache. When it stops hurting, it might be too late.

You don't happen to live next door to the distilleries, do you? It could just be a permanent hangover, what a party pooper.

Dan C.

lee

What is a CO2 problem. CO2 is not harmful to people. You would think that firefighters would know the difference between co and co2