Tjernland Probs

Leo

What do you mean by canceled out the proving switch? The SS1C can handle as low as 50,000 BTU/hr to 315,000. Was this system giving a problem before you got there? The basics are, the fan comes on and creates a draft, the proving switch proves it, then the burner is allowed to start. Four things can come into play, 1) the fan has been burnt up not allowing it to create enough draft, 2) the fan can be full of products of combustion, not allowing it to create enough draft, 3) the draft proving tube can be plugged on the end or burnt up, 4) the proving switch can be bad. I hope you didn't jump out the proving switch because if the fan is bad products of combustion can enter the building as this is a safety. Is the unit set to the proper BTU range?

Hope this helps,
Leo

Unknown

Tjernland SS1C

I had to clean an oil boiler yesterday that had one of these on it,,,what a "fiasco", I fooled with-it for hours, as everytime the burner wanted to fire, it would cancel-out the proving switch. I think it was too big to begin with (SS1C) from what I read it should have been an SSC. Anybody else had probs with these?, I hope I never see another!!Edit- Sorry, I meant it should have been an SS1.

Dave

Unknown

Leo

I take offense to your reply. I would "never" jumper-out a proving switch!! The only adjustment on the TJ is on the outdoor hood, setting this at the lowest possible setting allows a .02" over the fire(recommended) and this setting shuts the burner down! I had a better posting,,,,,but it timed-out!

Dave

Unknown

I think,

I`m gonna talk-this guy into a gas mod/con and scrap this piece of junk!! Tj gives no help whatsoever. HO says its been a prob from day 1! (9 years).

Dave

Maine Ken

9 year old problem that you as a professional couldn't fix leads to a completely new system. How about fixing the problem at hand?

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Leo

My reply

My reply was not meant to insult you but it was based on the mistakes I have seen made many times. I posted trying to help you not insult you.
You never did say how it shuts down and what is done to make it run.

Leo

Unknown

Oh I,

eventually got-it going Ken, and I did not "jumper anything" but I had to run the draft higher then spec and this doesn`t "sit-well" with me. Reducing the air made a dirty flame, increasing made my CO2 too low. It was difficult to satisfy the Tj`s switch. I was not the only guy that had this same prob! So The HO told me.

Dave

Unknown

Leo,

its just a little Riello F5, fired at .60X60* 150 PP, the burner was, and is clean, the PreP is 15 sec. BTW- I owe you an apology for my other post,,,,,please accept, as this "one unit" always gets under my skin!

Dave

Leo

Try this

Go outside and open the draft setting slightly more than your present firing rate. Then adjust the draft over fire by the draft reg. See if this creates enough draft to satisfy the proving switch. If that doesn't work try a new proving switch. I forgot if this proving switch has a sensitivity adjustment like the fields does, that could be off.
Leo

Maine Ken

Dave, I am no fan of that unit either. A nice SS2 would be my first suggestion before a new system. I have had a few proving switches with ghosts for bellows!!! Intermittant problems only. New switch and the ghosts went away.

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[Deleted User]

Push me, pull you...

Am not familiar with the oil end of things, but can tel you in the one case where the HO (builder) had a BUderus gas boiler with Riello burners and a Tjernlund inducer, we ended up putting in a Bvent vertical stack and the problem cild went away. Too much pushing and pulling going on. The draft over the fire was all over the place. Now its stable as a rock.

ME

Unknown

Heard that,

Ken, like Leo said, it may be like a "Field" I don`t know, there are orifices to change on the proving sw., and I tried them all, every-one was a prob, BTW- Thanks for your response Mark, ever had 1 that "really" got to ya?, well this is one for me anyway!

Dave

JackFre

Was the wheel clean?

The biggest problem with the SSI is that the wheel is not cleaned when the boiler is serviced. Pull the motor/blower wheel on the SS and clean it. If it is out of round, replace the wheel. Are there any reducers in your vent connector? Are they bushing reducers. If so change to a tapered reducer. Is the vent connector ending with a 90 going into the venter. If so, not the best practice as it may create a turbulent flue gas flow to the prover. Pull the tube leading to the prover. Clean it! It is not uncommon for a dirty flame, over time to plug that tube. From your description, I would bet it is a dirty wheel and the tube.

Tjernlund's manuals are available at www.tjernlund.com Their tech service number, and they DO help, is 800 255-4208. I represent Tjernlund in New England. May I help you?

JackFre

Also

How is the combustion air being handled on this job?

Unknown

Thanks Jack,

the wheel didn`t appear dirty, but I think its been out of balance since day 1, it is very noisy, and the small nature of the boiler room amplifies-it. The "tube" is clear, I checked-it, I`d really like these people to stay on oil but this venter is a turn-off to them, and their asking about options now. Combustion-air is 6", I even thought-of tieing this into the venter, before the appliance as I can`t seem to get-it low enough. Tj in Canada is no-help as the HO has repeatedly complained from the get-go.

Dave

Dave Yates (PAH)

And they always seem to be located in the middle of nowhere!

Why is it that problem-jobs are always the fartherest from the shop?

Got called to check a problem radiant installation & it had an oil-fired boiler in an attached shed (used to have the boiler in the basement) because the radiant add was SOG & the installer didn't know how to power up a somewhat remote slab. Told the HO's the boiler had to be movred to accomodate the radiant!

It too had a Tjerland exhauster & man was I shocked upon entering that mechanical shed. Soot everywhere! The oil tank was about 2" away from the side of the boiler (what NFPA regs?) and the exhaust traveled over the length of the oil tank to the Tj that was installed just inside the wall. The HO was having to climb over the oil tank to reset the Tj! Outside, the exhaust was in a corner with vinyl siding melted on the shed and the bricks on the new add a deep black from soot! The HO told us no one could "catch it in the act" of locking out. Back inside the shed, we noticed the only combustion air was a 4" dryer vent with flapper removed! So, we closed the shed door & fired that puppy up. Didn't take long until the fire was suffering and turning to sooty conditions. Tossed the Tj, installed a SS b-vent up past the roof-line and added a louver for combustion air. A mason built a dividing wall for the oil tank to comply with NFPA.

Given that the Tj will draw more air than just what's required to safely exhaust the combustion gases, you might want to give that a look-see if you haven't already.

Alan R. Mercurio_3

Dave, I'm sure Jack here will take good care of you. However I'd also like to offer you a lead of another great guy from Tjernlund that I'm confident will help you with this and any other situations that may arrise. Give my buddy Scott a call.

Tjernlund power venters

Technical Service: Scott Stafki 1 800 255 4208 Ext 142


Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

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Tommy H

Dave I have been going through a similar problem and can sympathize with your problem. There is an led light that flashes on the i-c board that will show you which of the sensors is causing your problem.I had the best luck by opening the outside draft adjustment more than what the directions called for and adjusting my draft regulator to -.02 overfire.However if that motor is loud and not balanced than you are better of replacing the motor assy.I am assuming it is the power venter locking out and not the Riello

JackFre

Tjernlund

Alan, thank you for that. Scott is a good hand. If your customer is not getting help out of the Canadian distributor I would strongly suggest that they contact the factory at the above listed numbers. As suggested, you should definitely replace the wheel on the "noisy" venter. The wheel is not balanced and therefore will not run true. Nor will your draft in such a condition. Unfortunately, the venter you have, if nine yrs old, does not have the UC1 controller which Tommy refers to. I think you are about on the lower edge as to combustion air. What kind of space is the boiler located in. Is it a room, a full basement. Given Canadian construction standards as I know them, you are dealing with pretty strict infiltration standards. I'm not sure of Canadian standards on CA.

Unknown

Tommy H

Thanks for your reply, as a matter of fact, Thanks to everyone,,,,,unforunately this Tj has no UC1 board in-it. I`m gonna pick-up a new wheel, and proving switch today and try-it again. I`m not much of a "try and see parts changer guy", but myself and the HO is at their "wits-end" with this. I did get-it going Fri. PM but I`m not comfortable with my draft settings, and I don`t "trust" its reliability. Edit- It is the proving sw. in the Tj that shuts the Riello down. (I think my wrong explanation threw Leo off above.)

Dave

Unknown

Jack

Your right, the home is very tight, and there is a separately partitioned and drywalled room(quite small) for this boiler. The 6" CA inlet is located in the wall about 12" from the appliance and the Tj is directly over that(boiler). Do you think teeing-in the CA "directly" into the unit(before the boiler) would help? The vent piping from the boiler is only about 6ft, then enters the Tj.

Dave

JackFre

combustion air.

In a confined space with only the 6" inlet (figure a 30-40% reduction in open area due to the grill on the outside) and you are pretty severely restricted on the air supply to the burner. Doing a direct connect to the burner isn't sufficient in this situation (in my opinion) I would vote for an Enforcer. It interlocks with the burner and supplies both combustion and ventilation to the unit and runs only on the call for heat. At this point it may be a tad difficult to sell the homeowner another Tjernlund product, but that is the correct solution to the CA issue, again, in my opinion.

According to NFPA 31 US standard you would need TWO CA openings, minimum. Check your Canadian standards. There are a lot of power venters whose problems are directly attributed to inadequate CA. In fact here in the US it is one of the prime topics for discussion and re-write for the next section of NFPA31

Scott Stafki

> In a confined space with only the 6" inlet

> (figure a 30-40% reduction in open area due to

> the grill on the outside) and you are pretty

> severely restricted on the air supply to the

> burner. Doing a direct connect to the burner

> isn't sufficient in this situation (in my

> opinion) I would vote for an Enforcer. It

> interlocks with the burner and supplies both

> combustion and ventilation to the unit and runs

> only on the call for heat. At this point it may

> be a tad difficult to sell the homeowner another

> Tjernlund product, but that is the correct

> solution to the CA issue, again, in my opinion.

> According to NFPA 31 US standard you would need

> TWO CA openings, minimum. Check your Canadian

> standards. There are a lot of power venters whose

> problems are directly attributed to inadequate

> CA. In fact here in the US it is one of the prime

> topics for discussion and re-write for the next

> section of NFPA31

Scott Stafki

Combustion Air

Thanks to all of you who have tried to assist Dave with this ventig issue. Tjernlund Prducts has sold hundreds of thousands of side wall venting systems. I feel you have a combination of contributing factors effecting the appliance operation. If you open a window when your appliance is in operation you should see what type of effect it will have. I'll be happy to assist you with technical support. Please contact me at 1-800-255-4208 x 142

Thank you, in advance.

Scott Stafki

mtracy

bottom line

chimneys rock...no draft provers,motors,relays,nothing to keep you up nights playing contortionist....

Unknown

Thanks Scott,

comforting feeling to know I`m not in the dark here, I may just wind-up calling you if these changes won`t work! But like Jack referred-to, there is no-way the HO will go for another Tj product. I ordered from my wholesaler(Wolseley), a new wheel and prov. sw. today, and hope it doesn`t take too long to get, apparently their parts distributor is Can.-Gen.-Filters. All anybody can do now, is wait. Thanks again!

Dave

Unknown

mtracy

I hear ya, this is the ONLY-one I have, note my original post!
Next step (they told me), was a gas mod/con. Tough to talk them-into anything else now, given the 10 year "need it or not" OT replacement kick, insurance co`s are-on now!

Dave