new boiler recommendations

Matt Undy

Are pilot burners that are pre total shutoff integrated valves particularly dangerous? It seems like the amount of gas that a pilot burner consumes is so little that the only danger would be if you failed to follow the instructions about turning the cock off for the pilot burner, open the burner door, and wait a few minutes before going after the pilot burner with a match.

What is the oppinion of other people on the wall about this? I know gas stoves that do not have electric ignition are still built this way. It seems to me that the amount of gas is so minute that it will never reach the lower explosive limit in the room surrounding the boiler? Does anyone know of any accidents with this type of pilot.

It sounds to me that wanting to replace the non-total shutoff pilot is mostly a scare tactic providing it is treated with propper respect.

Are there now condensing steam boilers on the market? Because of the higher tempuratures needed to produce steam it is hard to squeeze heat out of the exhaust gases in a secondary heat exchanger because of the still relatively warm return condensate.

Matt

Erin_3

are the high efficiency steam boilers worth it?

I just had the heating specialist from my heating company out here. He thinks we'll be spending a few hundred to fix the pilot, and quite a bit more if we bring the pilot/main gas lines to code (which we would like to do as having the pilot gas continue to flow with the pilot out makes me nervous). A new peerless boiler would be ~6500 completely installed, same price for the Peerless, we'd have to line the chimney first which is probably another $900. We'd get a five year warranty on parts and labor, and two years extra in their service club (free cleanings, discount on work). I asked him about the Burnham Independence as well. I don't know what model Peerless he is talking about but he said it was 83% efficiency, which would get us a gas company rebate but not an energy star one.

He said that they install very few high efficiency steam boilers, as most customers think anything is an improvement over the old one, and they don't want to pay the money.

any help is appreciated. thanks! --Erin

Erin_3

They're not telling me to get a new boiler because it isn't safe. They are just questioning how much money I want to put into a boiler that is just a few years max from replacing. They are thinking a few hundred to fix the pilot, maybe a few hundred more than that to bring the pilot gas line to code (which he never said we had to do, I brought it up) and that wouldn't be as big a problem if the pilot doesn't keep going out.

My husband and I are having a big debate about paying for a boiler now or later. He is leaning later when it is absolutely necessary, ie the boiler totally breaks. I am leaning now as if it saves us 1/3 of our gas costs (the heating guy said at least that much) that is $740 a year in gas we're paying while we wait, and prices will go up. We've been bleeding money on things like roofs, insulation, repairing things ruined by leaks the inspection didn't show, and a boiler is another unsexy thing that it rots to fix/replace. But I can't buy a couch in good conscience knowing that we need a boiler sooner rather than later.

Do you all side with me or my husband?

GW

Erin, as a heating contractor and a husband, I'm here to say you are right. Unless he is a thrill seeker, doesn't it make sense to change out the boiler in a controlled environment, as in NOW? You don't know what trouble is until your old boiler drops dead on a cold Friday night; all your "control" goes out the window. You'll be stuck with whoever is available, and that may not be a pretty sight.

You may experience two different philosophies here, the repair guys and the installers, although many people here do both. The repair guys make a living doing just that; they sometimes don't have the man power to move heavy boilers. The installers out there love new boilers; we also love kicking the old beast down. I enjoy taking cast iron sections outside while they're still hot and seeing the steam ooze off. Yes, I'm a pretty twisted guy. I love heating.

The price you mentioned to replace seems more than fair; 5 year parts and labor? It's a deal, do it! As long as the guy knows how to pipe steam, you're all set. Send your husband back to work, there's a new boiler coming!!!!!!!! If you have some money, consider a hot water conversion; you'll spend maybe triple but have modern technology and much better fuel bills and better comfort, and more flexibility for future renovations.


To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

GW

The thing is a dinosaur, be gone with it! Does your car have a crank in the front of it? Does your car have AC? Let's get a little bit more modern, the tech was doing a good job, no scare tactics, even Erin confirms.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Brad_18

fix or wait

Well, my boiler just cracked and started leaking pretty seriously. I simply called the last guy that serviced it and asked if he could get it replaced the next day. So I chose a high efficency model, which my research shows costs about $3,500 (retail?). I'm paying $9,000 to have it installed so I'm pretty sure i could've done ALOT better had I had the time to shop and consider my options.

Brad

PS I truly hope they come back tomorrow to finish the install as it is pretty hard typing with numb fingers.

soot_seeker_7

brad.. cracked boiler?

what kind of boiler was it? how old?

old age or something else?

just curious to see what's dying & what's lasting nowadays.


ss

Steamhead (in transit)

I wouldn't convert that to hot water

you'd be opening up a can of worms. Properly installed and tuned, and assuming the boilers are similar, steam will equal the comfort of hot-water and approach its efficiency. And it won't freeze up in an extended power or fuel failure like hot-water can. Go here for more info on the risks involved:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

My company does not recommend or perform this type of conversion and will not work on a system that someone else has converted. Unless we can change it back to steam, that is. When we can save our steam customers over 30% on their fuel consumption by just getting the basics right, trying to convert to hot water makes absolutely no sense at all.

Some people will tell you that the latest condensing hot-water boilers are much more efficient. Sure they are- at lower water temperatures, typically less than 140 degrees. Steam radiators are sized smaller than hot-water ones since steam puts out more heat per square foot of radiation. If you try to run the same radiation with hot water, you have to jack the water temp way up which takes the boiler out of its condensing range. Then its efficiency drops to the range of a standard boiler- about 86% or less.

Erin, get the highest-efficiency steam boiler you can find, and have it installed by a real steam pro who will do the job properly. A steam pro will know how to tune the SYSTEM- not just the boiler- to achieve maximum performance and efficiency.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professinal"

joel_19

brad

The price of the unit is many times a small part of your purchase price there typically are lots of external components and of course the labor and overhead costs of the company.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Erin_3

no interest in hot water

We love our steam heat, I am in love with our American Standard Rococo radiators, which are only one pipe.

Erin_3

new boiler vs new pilot redux

Ok, to replace the pilot assembly, gas valve etc will be $729, or 10% of the cost of a new boiler and chimney liner. It would also upgrade the safety of the pilot line by having the shut off shut off pilot and main gas.

Combustion efficiency came to 75.2% a new boiler would get me 83%. Today's guy (same company, new guy to me) was saying that from an efficiency standpoint it is close to a wash, just a question of when the boiler is going to crack, next year or 3 years from now.

They put on 7 new adjustable rad vents with boiler installation (I have all new ones now, but only 3 adjustable) to balance out the system and make sure the 3rd floor actually gets heated (now it doesn't really). Today's guy also really thinks he can direct vent with some kind of double motor thing to account for the length (it's actually pretty far to the chimney too). That would likely cost a few hundred more dollars, but less than lining the chimney.

Advice?