Your ideas needed/commercial hydronics/Pat Linhardt

Weezbo

does your article go something like, in New construction of commercial and light industrial spaces we have found Radiant floor heat to be extremely comfortable and economical? The advantages being that construction can continue into the season with the radiant floors on low temp heat..warming the slabs enough to make completing the work at hand much less objectionable to forced air heating via master heaters and other noxious gas producing appliances?...accessible from your lap top....?

just how does it read?


Or does it read,that there are radiant cement panels that can be used for multi story buildings that can be used for significant savings both for radiant heating and radiant cooling reducing the fuel and energy consumption by 100's of thousands of dollars a year..with the right control strategies interconnected with the heat recovery systems and clean filtered air ,reducing the sick building syndrome so often seen in larger mixed air systems with add on Air conditioning piping that may often go for long periods, neglected of maintenance?...

that with the introduction of radiant heating and cooling with the more modern appliances products and controls buildings have become fully functional as a complete system rather than bits and pieces that do not communicate with one another with the purpose of energy efficiency, fire safety ,clean air ,controlled lighting,security and surveillance ,in door climate control in conjunction with weather data delivered for the specific site, out door parking lot safety with the use of snow and ice melt...? all controlled by the heating controls?

should i add pictures in my guess?

or should i mention that there are homes of under 6000 square foot that have these controls that are basically superior to many in Hospitals built last century?

does it read, the advantages of the internet have bought access to ; Steam,gravity,high, med, low heat,geo thermal, solar, bio mass, CHP's, Windmill, Ocean current ,Nuclear hybrid hydrogen separation plants, district heating systems . information...and more product development , acceptance of energy conservation devises have been brought about by some very helpful sites on the internet...this one HeatingHelp.com currently enjoying the #1 rating:)brought about by the continual support by many Engineers ,manufacturers,business managers,Wholesalers ,Research and Development, plumbing heating electrical professionals,Artistic Craftsmen and individuals from every walk of life who gather here for some mental physical and spiritual help with their heating systems from time to time?

*~/:)

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

your ideas needed for article on comm. hydronics, Pat Linhardt

Hi Everyone,

I have been asked by "Contracting Business" to write an article for the February issue on the topic of: How to sell commercial hydronics in the new construction market. I checked with Dan for permission to post this thread, since he writes for a rival publication. As is typical with Dan, he said, "Please do." Is there a nicer person in the industry?

Anyway, I have the article mostly conceived, but wanted to include ideas that work in the various regions of this great country. What works in NYC may not be right for the Rockies or Swampeast Mo. If you respond to this thread, please indicate what region you are in. I am looking for the advantages of hydronic equipment over other forms of heating, like scorched air, or the advantages of one hydronic technique over another. What is working for you?

I'm not a business guru, just a humble heating man, so the article is going to be more on the technical application rather than the sales process. The rough outline is attached if anyone wants to check it out. I'm interested in comments, good or bad. As I said, it is rough. maybe your comments can help polish it up.

Thank you in advance for your help, it is much appreciated.

Best regards, Pat

Couderay

Hey Weezbo I like your article.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

let's try this

Second try at attachment

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

Wow!

Hi Weezbo,

Thanks for your ideas. I can tell you are passionate about the advantages of hydronics. The industry needs more people like you.

It looks like I screwed up the attachment on the first attempt, so I posted it again. Hopefully you can take a look at it.

Pardon my ignorance, I know you are a regular wallie, but where are you located? I was trying to get some idea of what works best in what regions.

Best regards, Pat

Unknown

Pat,

I still can`t seem to open this doc. I don`t know if I`m missing a "setting", or if the prob is on your end, I tried yesterday too.

Dave

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

sorry about that

Hi Dave,

I'm sorry you can't get it. I just spent some time typing out a condensed version, but had an error trying to post and now don't have the time to re-do. I will try again later.

Best regards, Pat

Mad Dog_2

Me neither, Pat

Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Maine Doug_52

Change it

to plain text and not a word doc or wordpad doc
When I try to open it, it calls up Dreamweaver.

ALH_4

portable data format

pdf is pretty much the standard.

I use PDF995 because it's free. It works much like Adobe Acrobat in that it appears in the Print menu. Anything you can print, you can save as a pdf.

Christian Egli_2

Article for February 2007

How to sell commercial hydronics in the new construction market

I am not a business guru
Just a heating man
Been around for awhile
Seen a lot of changes
Have seen what successful contractors have done through the years

What works in your area
What works locally may not be what is used nationally
Local climate quirks
Local occupant preferences

Prepare to sell
Document your past successes
Make up a binder or power point presentation with good quality photos and testimonials from past jobs
Research what others are doing, good and bad
Experience can be a great teacher
Learn from others’ mistakes
Use the equipment/design you recommend in your own home or shop
Become an advocate/enthusiast/apostle

Partner with a design/build general contractor
Do designs and quotes on past, present and future jobs
Present designs not used in the gc’s past
Refine designs used in the gc’s past
Find out what is important about building’s function
Meet with new building’s owners or occupants if possible
Listen and ask questions, let them decide what is needed
Zoning?
Green building design?
Perimeter heat for large glass exposures?
Remember, this is about their desires, not yours
Adapt your design to their expectations
If you can’t meet the owner/occupant, find out from the gc

Prove the benefits of your hydronic system design
Have data, documentation or testimonials to show efficiency, IAQ, comfort, initial cost or control advantages
Let the numbers do the talking
Let the testimonials do the closing
People are making decisions based on reviews or past experiences of users of the product or service

Christian Egli_2

Article for February 2007

How to sell commercial hydronics in the new construction market

I am not a business guru
Just a heating man
Been around for awhile
Seen a lot of changes
Have seen what successful contractors have done through the years

What works in your area
What works locally may not be what is used nationally
Local climate quirks
Local occupant preferences

Prepare to sell
Document your past successes
Make up a binder or power point presentation with good quality photos and testimonials from past jobs
Research what others are doing, good and bad
Experience can be a great teacher
Learn from others’ mistakes
Use the equipment/design you recommend in your own home or shop
Become an advocate/enthusiast/apostle

Partner with a design/build general contractor
Do designs and quotes on past, present and future jobs
Present designs not used in the gc’s past
Refine designs used in the gc’s past
Find out what is important about building’s function
Meet with new building’s owners or occupants if possible
Listen and ask questions, let them decide what is needed
Zoning?
Green building design?
Perimeter heat for large glass exposures?
Remember, this is about their desires, not yours
Adapt your design to their expectations
If you can’t meet the owner/occupant, find out from the gc

Prove the benefits of your hydronic system design
Have data, documentation or testimonials to show efficiency, IAQ, comfort, initial cost or control advantages
Let the numbers do the talking
Let the testimonials do the closing
People are making decisions based on reviews or past experiences of users of the product or service

Christian Egli_2

Got it open in Wordpad - pasting the text here

Article for February 2007

How to sell commercial hydronics in the new construction market

I am not a business guru
Just a heating man
Been around for awhile
Seen a lot of changes
Have seen what successful contractors have done through the years

What works in your area

What works locally may not be what is used nationally

Local climate quirks

Local occupant preferences


Prepare to sell

Document your past successes

Make up a binder or power point presentation with good quality photos and testimonials from past jobs

Research what others are doing, good and bad

Experience can be a great teacher

Learn from others’ mistakes

Use the equipment/design you recommend in your own home or shop

Become an advocate/enthusiast/apostle

Partner with a design/build general contractor

Do designs and quotes on past, present and future jobs

Present designs not used in the gc’s past

Refine designs used in the gc’s past

Find out what is important about building’s function

Meet with new building’s owners or
occupants if possible

Listen and ask questions, let them decide what is needed

Zoning?

Green building design?

Perimeter heat for large glass exposures?

Remember, this is about their desires, not yours

Adapt your design to their expectations

If you can’t meet the owner/occupant, find out from the gc


Prove the benefits of your hydronic system design

Have data, documentation or testimonials to show efficiency, IAQ, comfort, initial cost or control advantages

Let the numbers do the talking

Let the testimonials do the closing

People are making decisions based on reviews or past experiences of users of the product or service

Unknown

Thanks Christian,,,,,,

I got-it to open there too, don`t know how I would have found-it without you!

Dave

Christian Egli_2

The ultimate: hydronically heated boiler room

Pat, I took the liberty to paste your document into a new post. It does not look as useful as your attached version because the indented tabs got flattened out. Anyways, for once I look like the genius for opening this in wordpad.

EDIT Dave, you're making my head swell Glad to be of help.

As far as ideas go, selling new commercial hydronics goes right against the slapped on roof top unit. Promoters and real estate agents mostly only think of these in their adds, just look, any presence of a boiler usually gets hidden under the ambiguous - gas heat - entry. Only roof top units get labeled as modern.

Locally, I want to say most car dealerships have learned from each other and only want radiant floors. There is no promoter in between.

Many manufacturing plants tired of the cold wind draft have switched to radiant gas tubes hung on the ceiling. This, they see from each other and from the heavy advertising in their trade specific magazines.

The nicer factories and commercial buildings have steam heat, but for the most the market is full of hot air.

Is there a fear that installing anything hydronic would call for engineering designs while hanging hot air furnaces requires no thinking?

Keep in mind that I have not been involved in new ground up construction, so I may not be that much of a genius after all.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks!

Hi Christian,

Thanks for clearing up my mess. I must have a long way to go with computer skills.

I am having trouble with the posting also. Twice yesterday I composed condensed/clearer versions of the article, only to encounter an error when posting. Grr, frustrating.

I was just in Dayton last night hosting from radiant training with Uponor. The pizza from Marian's was great.

Best regards, Pat

Ken_40

Pat,

I am aware of how this works in both NJ and VT. NJ because we worked that region for 30+ years and did much "commercial" work, as well as in VT by virtue of the time I have making meetings of the local ASHRAE chapter (something I had no time for when a member in NJ due to work loads).

There is no need to sell hydronics in those areas I am familiar with. It is an engineering necessity, not an option. The architects design the structure, the engineers design the mechanicals. We work together, glove in hand. Were there a way to heat and cool a structure without hydronics, I'm sure it would be done. This is not to say large factories do not heat with huge Dravo-type units, but that is passe and by virtue of the new ASGRAE 90.1 energy standard, which most states have adopted for years now, makes Dravo type units incapable of meeting code.

Hydronic based systems are less expensive to install, have longevity that rivals any other form of heat and are easy to make code compliant. Whether or not radiant, HWBB, steam or hydro air is the end product is an open option. Hydro-air being the most likely design application in larger structures. Ducts do true HVAC (underline ventilation) duties.

From malls to schools to factories to office space, no one I am aware of does straight scorched air; no one. Not in the weather patterns of NJ or VT anyhow.

Hope that helps.

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks Ken

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your input. How's life in the woods?

Do you still have that baseball hat with the ponytail sewn in? That killed me in Providence.

Best regards, Pat

Ken_40

Life is good...

We kill things. Eat them. Kill more. Eat them too.

Not by choice. They drop off the lights into your salad when you're not looking.

They look like ladybugs. The locals tell us they are an asian mutant.

The "hat" is in the archives. Awaiting the next wethead-fest.

You are well I must assume?

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

all is well

Hi Ken,

Glad to hear you are enjoying the north woods.

Life is grand. We celebrated my mother's 85th a couple of weeks ago. I even got her to shoot some nine ball with her son-in-laws on the recently restored pool table in my recently finished basement. I'm currently taking a break before starting the next home improvement project.

Best regards, Pat