Lines in the ICF walls

Gene Davis_2

We are planning our next project as GCs, and will use ICF (insulated concrete forms) for the basement foundation walls.

We want to heat the house with HW baseboard units, and routing the supply and return lines to the walkout basement rooms is in question.

The ICF walls have about 2-3/4" of EPS foam thickness before the concrete core is reached. To route electrical wires there, we simply slice a groove with an electric chainsaw equipped with a depth stop at the tip, and the romex is pressed into the groove and fixed where necessary with foam glue. You can prep a room with slices in just minutes. Heck, you can prep a whole ICF house with grooves for electric, in minutes.

Seeking to run PEX supply and return, we wonder if we can go overhead to right over where a unit will go, then straight down, by way of a groove in the foam, just like the wiring goes.

Our only other option is going into the concrete slab, something we don't want to do. One reason is heat loss, and the other is, why bury it permanently if you don't have to.

What have you done when working with ICF construction?

ALH_4

bb pipes

I would run it in the floor in foam pipe insulation. Running it high and coming down through the wall exposes the tubes to possible nails or screws in the future and can create a high spot for air.

kevin coppinger_4

I have worked w/....

a number of ICF homes..very nice stuff. Why are you not drilling through the floor joists and run the pex through that way? By the way get a hot knife to cut your grooves it is a lot cleaner/neater than the chainsaw....kpc

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Ed_26

piping

Why not radiant floor? & why no insulation under cement?
Going to the use of ICF & not insulating the floor seems like 1/2 job to me.

Steve Ebels_3

Or

Run it under the floor but sleeve it. If you ever have to access the tube you can pull it out and it also allows you to pull additional runs if the need ever arises. I'm assuming that you want to run tube to a manifold or a panel rad here and you could get a pair of 1/2" tubes through a 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" conduit pretty easily. I don't know exactly what your needs are but I have done that several times when the situation calls for future access.

Weezbo

Hardly seems Human *~/:)

i have run pipe tube in,through along down Foam block.doing like sleeved tubing and small supply and return lines for injection substations is basically the way to go. insulating the tubings Supply line might be a good idea as it will allow you to get the available water temps There...the return can be Beacoup cooler..:)

like Ed said... radiant slab is a steady state low water temp in comparison to baseboard..Plus...the radiant floor being insulated holds the heat base board is about the last thing you would really want..you just dont know it yet

Unknown

seconded what Ed and Weezbo

Those two guys are what I'm thinking too. Why not radaint floor heat? Etheir way, insulated the slab too!

Paul_11

ICF is great, use GYPCRETE floors with it.

Gene,

I totally agree that radiant floor heat is the way to go especially in an ICF house.

I wouldn't think about making an ICF house and not doing a radiant floor. But I do understand your wanting something easier to remove than concrete for a floor. I've installed thousands of feet of Gypcrete, and the beauty of it is that it is easy to chop out. However, you must install a finish floor of some form, wood or concrete.

It is more expensive than concrete, but it can be poured thin, and can easibly be removed.

I'm doing a three floor ICF house in PA this spring, with RFH, closed Geothermal water system installed 3' under a pond.
It is 25% buried in the side of a hill.

Also, I'm curious, why are you only doing the foundation ICF or did I misunderstand? Why not build the whole house in ICF. We're going up three floors.

Kevin is right, when he says that a hot knife is a lot safer than a chainsaw. Gene, you are scaring me.
Hot knives make short work of installing 3/4" supply lines from boiler rooms to manifolds, electric and any other things you need to. If you use Polysteel ICFs, it is a lot easier to not put a nail because they have metal studs inside them, so you screw to the metal studs, and always use a magnent before you use any screw or nail.

If you use 4" high quality rigid foam to insulate the ground floor, you will keep most of the heat from the tubing up in the house.

Good luck.

Respectfully,

Paul B. Shay
pshay@arealgoodplumber.com
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Kevin O. Pulver

Well.... I'm sure you agree,

The last thing they'd want is a FURNACE.
Baseboard would be a distant second to radiant in the floor however. As far as the chainsaw/hot knife controversy, I'd agree the knife makes less mess, but I'd think it would make a LOT more stink. Melting foam smell is not for me. I haven't done either, but saw the saw thing for the first time last week. It seems like it would be faster than the knife wouldn't it? Kevin