Oil Venting- Need your opinions

bob_92

you should really have a professional come and check it out there are to many variables to consider:such as will there be proper clearances for the smoke pipe in the crawl space?{federal code states 18 inches minimum clearances to combustables on single wall pipe.(2)that buderus may not even produce enough stack temp to enduce proper draft without a stainless steel liner because of low stack temp and length of run before chimney.(3)most servicemen i've seen doing cleanings will not probably enter crawl space and take down until it rots through putting you in danger at that point.i would suggest calling a reputable profess to guide you through the process.if not at least try and get chimney closer or even better run meatalbestos chimney out closer wall.may cost more now but much safer and cheaper than doing again which you will have to do if not done right.
good luck.

Ted_9

Your Ideas please

So here it is. The builder is going to have a masonry chimney built. So far the height is about 22'. Now we have a G215/5 that needs to be vented. It's a 6" flue from the boiler.

Now the chimney is being built off the addition which has a 3' crawl space. The boiler is approximately 17' away in the old basement.
So the only way to vent it is to go through the crawl space. The crawl space will be insulated.

I realize that the chimney will have to be built higher.

What is your experience with running a flue from an oil fired boiler through an unconditioned space, as I described?



UPDATED:
They decided to go with an All Fuel chimney through the roof.
Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

it is do able.

you need to try for the best Grade or Pitch that you can get for your run.
there is a relationship rise to run not just 1/4" per foot..
formed 90's swoop better than the adjustable...some guys who have run long runs bag the singel wall and go with metal asbestos or metal vent L vent. not an inexpensive alterantive...more often than not a guy will vote Tjerland and aim for the nearest floor joist to the outside...

i ought to mention that i would move the boiler to the back of the garage First...and pipe back to the house. anything over ten foot on the flat as i call it is a number i usually dont want to exceed the reason is the lower half of the pipe is usually cooler than the top of the pipe any soot build up over time makes the pipe heavy and as Leo says is a mess to deal with....

here is the other side of the equasion that he is presenting...are you sure the Home owner is going to keep up with the maint schedule? the only other biggie is often outasight is outta mind for many people..it is unlikely a service guy would get the pipe Back to where you had it and the bad part is that it will end up looking real bad some day.....

Leo

You're an idiot

Not you personally you asked first. Everytime I have to work on something like this I curse the idiot that designed it. Guys will never take it apart to clean it until it rots off. I hate crawling in one of these spaces to replace the rotted pipe or to check the spot it enters the chimney. It would be much easier on your service guy to put the chimney closer. A direct vented Buderus is just as frustrating.

Leo

Ted_9

ideas

I too have some ideas and I wanted to see what others said first.

1) Would All Fuel stainless pipe be better to use in the crawl?

2) What about using All Fuel and then having the pipe insulated in a box?

I'm going there today to get more exact measurements.


Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

JackFre

Not the best

Don't build a masonry chimney. You will have better operation from a factory built chimney. Less mass, better thermal response. Do whatever you can to minimize the vent connector length. Single wall pipe is out! All fuel cannot be installed unless within 30deg from vert. Use a product like Dura-vent's, DVL or Selkirk's DS. Double wall SS close clearance vent connector with matching tees, 45's, 90's etc. 10 yr warranty. Excellent product and the right tool for the job. Did I mention that you should really, really limit the length of the vent connector?

David Sutton_6

its a long run..

even with all the ss pipe and insulation your still going to have the acid rain, maybe a boiler drain on the tee,LOL just kidding Ted..So far your at 39' the 215's gonna give you 350°- 400° remove all the baffles and mustash but still by the time it reaches the top of the chimney its going to running back down. Sometime you have to go with the lesser of two evils p-pp--p i can't say ... power venter.

Good luck Ted


David

J.C.A._3

As much as....

I think of power venters as "just another mechanical device destined to fail at the most inopertune moment", I have to agree with David here. All the reasons are listed, and this seems like the lesser of the evils.

Not to bash anyone's product here, but consider a burner other than Riello for this task. Some are quieter, and easier to wire. I've had good luck with all options, but regretted a couple too.

Good luck Ted. I know you'll do what you have to, in the best interest of the customer. Chris

Ted_9

More info

Some more info.

1) From the boiler to the chimney it is 23' of pipe, plus 2- 90's and one 45. Total 30.5'?
2) Of that length, 17' is in the crawl space.

The chimney has not been built, but I don't think they will go over 23' for the height.

Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

[Deleted User]

This might be the

time to decline a job. 23' of horizontal vent w/ 3 turns. 17' in a crawl space. Masonry chimney, probably oversized, with a boiler known for low stack temperatures. Has possibilities. Most of them bad. Do you really want to do this?

Ted_9

Yea

well the job is mine and at least the chimney is going to be built, so there is something we can work with there.

I just either need to find a good way to make this possible or it's time to go another route.

Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

frank_25

i seem to remember...............

............the horrizontal run of the breeching can't be more than one half of the total chimney height. Me thinks you gotta BIG problem here. But most of all, how is Santa going to get around through all that flat pipe? He usually jumps down, and with his finger to his nose..............................[you know the rest]

Ted_9

heard this

what I heard was the horizontal cannot be more than 75% of the vertical height of the chimney. I need to find this document though.

Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

J.C.A._3

Ted,

Like I said...You've gotta go PV or DV with this puppy, and make sure that there's enough space inside and out for it to happen.

Lifes short. If they want it to go the way you've said....pass it on... and save yourself the aggrivation.Years of experience have told you that it isn't going to work THEIR way. Show them or move on. JMHO. Chris

Mike @ Capco

running horizontal with 10' and 250 F

Ted, don't do it.

Call me in the morning. I have a possible solution but it doesn't involve this chimney as proposed.

Thanks,

Mike

brucewo1b

Ted if you are in Mass

Your best bet would be to talk to George over at Firedragon.com he will give you what you need to know for certain.

Ted_9

email

Hi Mike, I see you got my email? I'll call you in the morning.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

kevin coppinger_4

Ted...

can you dig out the crawlspace to allow the boiler to be placed closer to the chimney? kpc

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ted_9

Concrete

Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Bob Harper

got it backwards

You need to put the boiler near the chimney. You cannot run that much horizontal offset. First, it will have so much flue resistance and heat loss, it will draw like a 3 y/o with crayons. Second, the horizontal will clog with oil soot. Third, how do you propose to get in there to inspect the pipe? Where is the cleanout and how do you get to it?

Bad idea from so many angles. Put the boiler near the chimney or vice versa.


Why in the hell is he building a masonry chimney that will instantly need a liner? Why not just use factory chimney?

Weezbo

Bob, if the guy has the room for a stone chimney...

then he certainly has space for a separate boiler room..

Ted_9

It's decided.

UPDATED:
They decided to go with an All Fuel chimney through the roof.


Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

John@Reliable_14

Good idea!..............

Ted, I just wanted to let you know that when you listed what was going to be used ie: 23' pipe plus (2) 90's and (1)45 that the total run = 50'of pipe , add chimney height to that and you have a big mess.

J.C.A._3

Good show Ted !

I know that the homeowner and builder didn't want to hear about, or fess up to the impossibility of their thinking, but rules is rules. They aren't always meant to be broken.

Mike is a solid "go to guy". I'm sure the hampster was turning full speed when he read the post.Finest Kind ! Chris

Ted_9

Yes

Thanks again for the support J.C.A.

You know what, the builder went ahead on his own to get the change done. I appreciate that he recognized that the other way just wasn't the right thing to pursue.


Massachusetts

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"