Steamhead, MadDog or other aspiring dead men...

J.C.A._3

Yes, it can be done. It's not all that uncommon.

Just valve out the old boiler ABOVE the main, and your good to go. Remember to valve the gas boiler so that the return can flow back to the old boiler, and not into the new one only, and you will be good to go.

I had a customer who had two "snowmen" piped side by side,one oil one coal, for years. All the coal controls were intact and working. It was an amazing sight to see all the chains and pulleys still active in the 80's! All the neighbors knew he had heat when the power went out, and it was the party house when it happened. His son took over the house when he passed, and had lessons from Mom on how to work it.As far as I know, it's still there and gets used a few times a year just to make sure it still works. Chris

Kevin O. Pulver

What say you?

I've got a customer with original 1920's coal steam boiler converted to gas burner. He's thinking of a new boiler.
My only experience with steam is to convert one to hot water.(bless me father, I have sinned)
I've read enough of, "The Lost Art" to learn that hydronics has taught me nothing; that I need to figure a good day of cleaning after an install; and that the boiler piping/return dimensions are horrendously critical and invite a 1000 ways to insure it WON'T work.

To further complicate things, he is wondering if it is possible in any manner to add a new gas steamer, while leaving the old one in for wood/coal back up. (Our area is experiencing the worst blackout in memory. On Dec 30th, a nasty ice storm brought 600 miles of power lines and poles down, our town of 900 on temporary generator power, and the V-16 Detroit ate it's turbo last night and shut us down again. Therefore, everyone is thinking backup) The only good points are: He's not in a hurry, I've got a pair of Ridgid 36" wrenches, a #300 threader, and an acute sense of my ignorance. So what are your recommendations for a boiler brand? Is leaving the old one in for backup feasible or even possible?
I can try to post photos later. I guess it's a smallish system, He's only got about 5 radiators in the house, maybe 5 sections/4 columns each 48" tall approximately.
I'll have to find my pictures to give you exact details, but this is a preliminary investigation. Thanks in advance fellas! Kevin

Al Corelli_2

Pictures would be helpful



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Ken_40

JCA's

on the money.

Nothing can beat careful planning, especially in thiss application!

Take your time, sketch out the piping you intend. Being able to isolate one boiler from the other will be key.

Steamhead (in transit)

You might consider

installing a new boiler that can burn either gas or oil. This way he'd have everything available to him! And you could point to this job as sort of a "flagship" example of what is possible, which could help your sales.

With that said- besides king valves and return valves as already mentioned, try to keep the water lines of the boilers as close as possible. This will simplify change-over and help avoid the possibility of unsatisfactory operation (banging, etc). You'll probably end up putting the new boiler on blocks to achieve this.

Each boiler should have its own header- discharging into a common header thru a king valve- and its own Hartford Loop. This may involve repiping the old boiler.

Be sure to install proper vents and insulation on the steam mains.

Let us know how you do!

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Unknown

Kevin, buy a stripped down boiler

and set it up for Powerpile, that takes care of all the power outages and keeps everything simple.

I just did two this past month, I do not want to mention the boilers as manufacturers get nervous when you convert their boilers. In addition I set this boiler up with a barometric, Star Kap and with spill switches in place and good combustion adjustment we had 86% combustion efficency with low CO and good combustion readings.These were two boilers a supply house had tucked away and could not sell because they are not up to federal efficiency guidelines by the rating plate. Just shows to go Ya what you can do when you know what to do.

I also had the return steam lines replaced and all of the near boiler piping. We also cleaned up some radiator problems. Now all we need is some cold weather to see how they are going to do.

Dave Stroman

Wow Tim, that is a wonderful idea. Will that powderpile put out enough energy to run through all the safeties as well as the thermostat?

Dave in Denver

Paul Rohrs_5

Blasphemer!

Run Forrest Run!!

Kevin, your propensity to work on steam engines should serve you well. I would love to see this when you're done.

Sorry to hear about the Detroit Diesels giving up the ghost. If I can help with anything, or you need something, call me. I'll come.

Paul

Kevin O. Pulver

Thanks all,

> Run Forrest Run!!

>

> Kevin, your propensity to

> work on steam engines should serve you well. I

> would love to see this when you're done.

>

> Sorry

> to hear about the Detroit Diesels giving up the

> ghost. If I can help with anything, or you need

> something, call me. I'll come.

>

> Paul

Kevin O. Pulver

Thanks all

I had vaguely wondered about isolation and separate headers. I'm encouraged to know that it can work.
I'll be running all ideas by you for approval. I'll get photos to start.
Paul, It was spectacular. The lights dim, then total black out, then BANG! I can hear the generator explode from 3 blocks away. I race uptown to see it, and blue flames were racing out the exhaust like a blowtorch. The V-16 Detroit ate its turbo. The linemen worked most all night to get another generator and transformer matched and installed. Power back on about noon for us. We've got wood heat and gas lamps so we're fine, but I was helping folks with generators as the heat loss is pretty rapid at 5degrees and 15 MPH wind. Kevin

Gordo

Star Kap

Please, Sir: Pray what is a Star Kap?

Kevin O. Pulver

Pix @ new thread, \"WOOD STEAM BACKUP\"

Thanks, See new thread. Kevin

brucewo1b

Star Cap

is a chimney cap

http://www.nationalcomfortinstitute.com/members/products2.cfm?product_id=20&Cat=Consumer Products

Unknown

Dave all you have to do is use

a little larger wire size. Normally 18 gauge is fine. If you have a long run or extra controls then use 16 or 14 gauge wire. Switches should drop less than 10 millivolts. Then depending on the thermostat used you will have plenty left with 750 millvolts output from the pilot generator. A good Honeywell or Robertshaw powerpile gas valve will use less than 300 milivolts.

Unknown

Star Kap is important to use with

the replacement of a draft hood with a barometric. It will prevent downdrafts from entering the gas boiler or furnace. It helps to balance the draft and hold flue gas temperature steady.