Off Topic: Do new survey before installing new fences?

Steverino

same situation with me a number of years back, new owners both side of me, I figured their surveys would show me where I could put my new fence (in a couple of inches on my side of property line). No Luck. I had to have my own survey due to permit requirements.

D107

Could soon have new owners either side of my house

Most recent survey was 36 years and many owners ago. There's always the survey cost to consider and the 'don't open a can of worms' idea. But with one new fence needed very soon and another fairly soon, I'd hate to have to pay to uproot and move new fences if new owners do their own survey and want some inches back. I'd say it's not a matter of more than a few inches, I might stand to gain and lose some at different points.

Then of course after the survey, which instructs you where to put the fence, they have to come around again to survey new fence positions re: property markers.

Thanks,

David

Dave_4

I don't see where a survey would open a can of worms.

I only see an upside, eg you don't put your fence on somebody else's property or you don't remove somebody else's fence.

Worst case is the survey shows that your existing fence is on your neighbor's property, in which case it's not your fence

Why would they have to come back after the installation? Do you need a permit to erect the fence (in which case the survey is probably required anyway)?

Tim

D107

New survey will not only mark correct boundaries

but also will note and describe existing (incorrect) fences, etc. But I guess your point would be --and a good one--as long as new fences conform to property markers there would be no need for a second survey update to note the new fences, though it would look better upon selling the house. I know the surveyor I spoke to did mention an update survey is something that is done sometimes to put the proof of conformance to paper. (Obviously more money for them.)

Thanks,

David

D107

Yes, though we hope that since one of the

possibly soon to be outgoing neighbors has agreed to chip in 50% with us for the fence, we could do it right on the property line and not a few inches within out boundary.

Thanks,

David

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I had my property re-surveyed (after one was supposedly done a few years before on purchase). Re-surveyed as I was putting in a raised garden with fence around.

This time I watched the surveyor. All he did was locate the existing surveyor's pins, plant flags and give a bill. At least the bill was reasonable for what he'd done...

Joannie_12

Hmmmm....

I don't know if I'd that, because the two of you may agree to do that now, but one of you may leave the property, and the person who moves in may not want a fence right on the property line. Just thinking of the future.

D107

very good points all

Always amazes me the variations on each problem. So while no one likes to lose a few inches of land by keeping the fence on their property, it may, as you suggest, protect against a situation where a new neighbor moves in, decides he doesn't like your style of fence and wants to build his own next to yours. If yours is on the property line instead of your property, his new fence would have to be pushed further onto his property than he might like.

And Mike T's point that it might be good to verify that a new survey will in fact involve re-measuring the land, not just codifying existing pins. In my case there's maybe only one old pin left. Funny that the rear property line to this 1924 house was originally demarcated with 3/4" pipes a few inches underground.

Thanks,

David

CC.Rob_2

local codes and suggestions

Our local codes (SE MA) don't require a permit for fences under 6ft high. Nor do they require a survey. They suggest one, however, to avoid future disputes and ensure that any rights of way or easements are clearly identified and appropriate modifications to the fencing are made, if necessary.

Probably most salient here is their suggestion to keep the fence about one foot inside your property boundary so that you can maintain the fence from the exterior, if need be, without trespassing. Kind of a bummer to lose a foot all around, though.

brucewo1b

Here we are or at least

at one time required to keep any fence at least one foot inside your property line.

Long Beach Ed

I was a surveyor, In another life...

And I did many surveys for fences.

Take a look at your existing map, and see if it shows the distance from some physical object to the property line. With smaller city-type lots, this should be enough information to locate your fence. Just stay a few inches clear of the line. Your map may also locate stakes or sidewalk markings that will locate the line.

If the information you need is not specified on the map, perhaps you can figure the distance from the house to the line by adding up some yard and house measurements and subtracting from the lot size?

On bigger or irregular lots, you may be out of luck. Either way, try contacting the surveyor who did the original survey. He'll have the field notes and will be able to do the job quickest and cheapest.

Long Beach Ed

D107

We all may not own all the land we think we do

Thanks alot Ed; great suggestions. This is a surburban lot, 50 x 125. The original surveyor has retired and given all this files to the surveyor I ordered a new copy from last spring. What was most interesting was that the front property boundary was 3-4 ft in from the sidewalk, meaning that the village owned all that. That's part of my lower stoop and lawn/rock garden. (I'd figured that the sidewalk and grass strip adjacent to the roadway wasn't ours, but the other shocked me.) Maybe that's for potential road-widening?

Also do you agree with the idea that a fence should clearly be on one side of a property line, even if two current owners agree to split the cost?

Thanks,

David

Leo

David said

"Maybe that's for potential road-widening?"

In my area of Mass the town owns so many feet from both sides of the center of the road. This allows them to do whatever is needed to work on the street, widening, drainage, side walks. Don't forget snow plowing, when people get upset that the end of their driveway got plowed in it gives the municipality an out. Could you imagine the added cost to our tax bill if they had to plow the end of each and every driveway?

Leo

Christian Egli_2

Good fences make for good neighbors

I think it’s great you’re working with your neighbor on this. Splitting the cost and agreeing together to the work would seem to be the ideal reason for placing the fence exactly on the property line.

I wouldn’t build anything like that without both measuring the property myself and with a surveyor, also, and more importantly, if my neighbor were to build a fence, I would immediately get a survey. Communication with everyone is important, and it seems you have that well taken care of already.

This happens more often than not with unscrupulous neighbors: they get away with building a fence beyond their line, in effect stealing your property. If you don’t stop it right away, it becomes a nasty lawyer fight. For what I’ve seen, the undue fence, even if it is on your ground, is not yours to demolish. Just like tramp cars parked on your lot. Amazing.

Here in my county, surveys are called for at each two or three transfers, so it’s not unusual to have a recent survey of at least a portion of any lot. Also, most streets around here have their line leaning way into the bordering plots, 5, 10, 25ft beyond the asphalt and the concrete. Land for you to maintain at your cost, but not for you to own, plus when the city decides to arbitrarily do something to it, like bulldozing your rock garden, you get to pay the assessment in full. Amazing.

Perhaps a bazooka would make for even better neighbors.

[Deleted User]

Squeeze play...

I am in the process of getting ready to start construction of my mountain summer/retirement home. A friend helped me do a preliminary survey based on the property pins located on either side of my lots. I'm short 6 feet of haing a full lot based on THEIR opinion. When confronting the land owners on either side, they both said the same thing, "Make sure your surveyor uses MY pins to start his survey..."

Last man in loses land I guess...

ME

Long Beach Ed

If you split the cost...

...and you jointly own the fence, it should be constructed "on the line". Otherwise, the person who owns the property on which it is located could easily modify or uproot it claiming ignorance of the joint ownership.

Would be nice to have an agreement or something in writing showing that you both shared the cost of buying it and are of the notion that the fence is on the line. This could be on the bill by the fence company to avoid the whole legal nonsense.

It's not uncommon for the city or town to own property on your side of the sidewalk. Often a 10' sidewalk will consist of a 5' concrete walk, and a 2-1/2 foot plantins stip on each side. Residents "adopt" the 2-1/2' nearest themselves.

If you look around you'll notice that fences and especially, walls are usually kept clear of this sidewalk strip.

Long Beach Ed

Dave_4

dave

Timco

Survey Says!!!

I paid for a survey when I bought this place. The pics show what I got!!! Double side yard and a second parking spot!!!Neighbor was PISSSSSED!!!!! When the surveyer came in, I said..."Survey Says!!!" Not a family fued fan, I found out.

T