Assistance for frustrated Baxi owner

ADL

As requested here are a couple of pics of my installation. I will anwser any questions to the best of my ability.
ADL

ADL

Tringle Tube as replacement for BAXI?

I am a frustrated owner of a Baxi Ocean Luna 24fi for the past 6 years. It runs DHW OK and cast rads in 1200SQ ft house OK but is cannot deal with 600 SQ ft of Radiant in basement due to small load and improper piping by contractor.

I am ready to throw it out as it is also killing me on yearly maintenenace. I am considering replacing it with a Triangle Tube Prestige Solo 110 coupled with a Triangle Tube Smart 40 indirect water heater. I am told we can deal with the Radiant by pulling off the outer shell water without any problems.

Can anyone offer experience with the Triangle Tube products as I am hesitant to spend significant $ on new boiler set up only to be dissapointed again.

Many thanks,

ADL

Brad White_167

Baby versus Bathwater

You say the Baxi does everything it is supposed to do and does it just fine with one exception, the 600 SF radiant. I see the issue as the installation on the radiant, which you do note.

Perhaps you need a buffer tank to take that small load? Are the issues you are having related to oxygen diffusion? Might a buffer tank and heat exchanger be in your future rather than throwing out a boiler for something that may not be it's fault?

I suspect most any boiler you install would have an issue tailoring itself to the small load, dealing with O2 barrier issues or whatever else may be ailing the distribution.

Nothing against the Triangle Tube of course, just that, are you ready to take that step?

My $0.02 (USD, not CDN


Brad

Tony_23

Brad's right

You already stated the obvious problem, incorrectly piped small load.

A buffer tank in that circuit is substantially less cost than a new boiler that will have the same problem, incorrect piping.

ADL

Of the three contractors I have had in recentley only one has suggested a buffer tank as possible solution. I am leaning towards this contractor pending quotation that is due from all three in the next few days.

A buffer tank is clearly the cheaper solution but I am also looking at longer term with Baxi maintenance costs. I spend on average $300-$500 (all figures $CDN) per year in service calls & parts for boiler. From new hear exchanger insulation panels (last year) to DHW diaghram, to Pressure switches & labour for service so I am looking down the road as to how much I will spend vs new boiler and potential fuel savings by increasing boiler efficiency in the range of 10%. The boiler efficiency thing may, however be a misnomer in that it is good for advertising but does not actually translate to in the field savings.

One other issue with the Baxi is the fact that it goes down at least a half a dozen times per heating season (3 times so far this heating season that is the warmest on record!). Waking up to no heat and a boiler reset is never fun.

All that to say that I am faced with spending maybe $1,000.00 now for the radiant fix and another 5,000 ish over 10 years in maintenance and call backs or to put out the in the order of 10K now for long term solution. There is still a spread even when you include the potential fuel savings but there is peace of mind as well.

Thanks for your input.

ADL

Brad White_9

Something else is going on, ADL

To have all of that, what has to cost an appreciable percentage of your fuel use for a year on repairs is not normal. I wonder if the small radiant load then is that much a part of the problem. It is not helping, I know, but to lose the HEX, insulation (or was it HEX insulation as one item?) diaphragm and so-on has to steer you away. What does Baxi say?

jp_2

simple fix-small loads

the easiest and most cost effiective way to fix the small load problem is to pair it up with a larger load.

that is, the slab has to wait for a larger load to call for heat, then it 'tags along for the ride'. assuming you have a zoning system and the floor has a mix down valve.

you could set it up so it will 'tag along' when any other call for heat happens. no buffer and piping necessary, just a wiring change.

tim smith

Triangle solo

Been happy with it so far, like the design and serviceability of it also. Time will tell, but hoping for the best.

Unknown

luna 24 fi

our company has installed quite a few of the old Baxis (n

Dave_4

Same here...

So far so good!

I might just have the only one ever attached to a convertible piping system, although the now much needed kitchen radiant part might not be very nicely balanced in direct mode.

Extremely cheap for electric when piped direct one zone. 14 watts idle, and then about 108 watts for your low firings. And that's with the internal circ on high. Take away 7 for medium (and that does my monoflo) and 27 for low which I would think would do a TRV'd manifold system without restrictive piping.

60w,80w,87w for circ, 14 for mcba - same computer as Ultra

I would try to zone the radiant so you can control it better.

ADL

Larger load you refer to would be my zone 1 which is main & second floor cast rads. There is a 2 way mixing valve into the radiant and the radiant has its own circulator on constant flow during heating season. Each zone also has a zone valve with end switches wired back to boiler to turn it on. Please forgive me if my terminology is not 100% as I am new student to hydronics by neccessity. Found this site after reading a couple of Dan's books.Both zones are controlled by a taco 2 zone control box.

I would attach a picture if it would help?

With respcet to earlier comment about "what does Baxi say about it" The Distributor here is a compamy calle Marathon and they have stopped returning my calls & emails for assistance. They did come out a few years back when the problems began but it would appear atht dealing with unhappy individual home owners is just not to their liking.

ADL

Bob Sweet

Thats kind of surprizing

I deal with Marathon quite a bit, they seem like a very pro-active distributor.

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ADL

I truly wish that I could report otherwise. Hence the dilema relating to replacing the Baxi for longer trem savings.

Bob Forand

Please don't take these isssues out on Marathon. I have dealt with that crew for quite a while now and have never had any issues with them. They are top notch guys up there in Toronto. Why would a distributor take ownership of your installation issues ? Most of your complaints are directly related to installation issues. When was your boiler installed ? My guess is that it was around 8-10 years if you have a 24FI. What happened to the original installer ? Did he stop returning your calls too ?

ADL

You are correct that the problems stem from the original installation. It was 6-1/2 years ago and the installer has since gone out of business.

I take issue with distributor only because I stopped by their booth this past spring at CIPHEX trade show and they were dismayed to hear that I was still having problems and the promised to assist. Nothing since then and I have to move on.

jp_2

floor heat call

what tells the boiler to fire when soley on basement floor?

ADL

Rehau thermostat (Air only) in basement is wired to Taco box. Call for heat opens zone valve & end switch fires boiler.

jp_2

general solution:

without knowing exact details of your electrical control, heres in general what I'd do:

instead of the zone control output going to the main radiator zone valve, I'd run the zone control output into a relay with two isolated contacts.

So, one contact feeds the main radiator zone valve, the other contact in series with the radiant floor thermostat contact.

therefore the only way the floor will heat is if the main floor radiators are heating.

Bob Forand

ADL

Perhaps you can post pictures of your boiler installation. Have you tried other local heating guys about your issues ? There has to be a solution to your problems.

Bob Forand

ADL

One more thing, when I speak to those boys up there in Toronto, I will tell them of this thread.

ADL

Is this something that I could do myself? Both thermostats currently go into 2 zone Taco box. The Taco box in turn operates two zone valves. End switches on zone valves turn on boiler. Photo of set up hase been posted on this thread.

jp_2

the general solution

the reason I said that is because I do not know exact how your system is set up, it should work, but something could be funky, piping, wiring, control strategy, etc and it wouldn't work.

need to find someone who can well understand your system, or understand the fix.

ADL

OK. I am in th eprocess of trying to find someone locally to address the issues. Will present this as an option.

Thanks.

ADL