Oil burner keeps tripping out.

Norm Harvey

If the Carlin 60200 primary control is going off on recycle (the 65 second pause before trial for ignition there can be one of two things wrong...

1) Loss of flame. This can be caused by high vacuum, usually a clogged oil filter, oil line, etc,..

2) Too much combustion air causing the fire to "flicker" and tricking the control into thinking there was a loss of flame.

Please get a professional there.

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pipefitter#51

Oil burner keeps teipping out.

I have a 5 year old Burnham V-83 boiler with a Carlin EZ-1 burner, Taco SR 503 3 zone relay with hot water priority (IDHW), Honeywell L8148A aquastst, and Hydro-level Safegard 170SV low water cut off. This system has preformed flawlesly untill I had the annual cleaning & service on 11/21. On 11/29 my burner triped out and since then has triped out 10 more times, my oil service provider tech. has made 6 calls and replaced so far, the nozzle, cad cell & controll, transformer, and the motor. The burner has triped out again and will be calling him tomorrow for the 7th time. Any ideas on what the problem could be? If he can't fix it this time any top notch oil techs out there want to give it a try, I live 15 miles south of Boston, Ma.

Weezbo

When you had them clean and tune the boiler...

did they use a soot vac?

Based on your reply...i am going to take the mental leap that you don't know what the heck the guy did:)

ok so, if you write down all these replies to your problem all these questions on the replies are "History " questions.

just so it changes next go around, spin out the idea that you would like to know the extent of the full cleaning and tune up. this time you would like to know some particulars,

and any recommendations...

someone who takes readings when they arrive, cleans the boiler vac it out,checks or replaces the oil filter/s, checks pump pressure, oil line vac. checks the oil tank with water indicator, cleans the squirrel cage with a tooth brush, checks the voltage available, checks various electrical parts and pieces ,checks the thermostats, re checks the draft stack co co2 ambient air... make up air openings, drive coupling and the pump and motor couplings, checks the surrounding area for chemicals or rags... there might even be a question as to when you last had fuel delivered and what # fuel oil...the nozzle might not need to be changed, however, if it is then you want to know what it was changed to and for what reason. keep old oil nozzles in the container that the one that was installed at the time of the clean and tune just for the sake of some real piece of information in the future....

lee_7

When they did the clean and service, did they do a combustion test? If so, what were the results? Draft, co2,o2, effiency, excess air?

ed wallace

oil burner

what does your oil company consider annaul servicing? has he replaced the filter,cleaned pump stainer,replaced nozzle adjusted electrodes vacumed out the boiler did an effeincy test?

Steve_35

Sounds like you have a parts changer.

Maybe you can find someone who has an Onwatch. Those things are awesome.

John@Reliable_14

Steve, check your e-mail

pipefitter#51

I have a ditinct feeling and have heard from other people that the young man who cleans the boilers does the absoulute minimum job and is not that good, though I am not there to watch. The techs do indeed seem to be parts changers till they get it right. Steve D.

Steve_35

The problem with changing parts

is it very often doesn't do any good and it gets expensive. If your burner is now over aired you can change parts all day long and still not correct the underlying problem.

Big Bob_2

No one suggested the Ignitor, Carlins ignitors have been well known to work intermitently, we stopped using them, and now install Beckett, Alinson may be OK too

Al Gregory

Chances are its the wrong nozzle or electrode setting. I see this stuff all the time. They can clean the boiler with a scrub brush but if the electrodes aren't set right then there will be problems.

Robert O'Brien

In all fairness

an intermittent reset problem is probably the most difficult to diagnose without an On-Watch. The best tech can be reduced to a parts changer on a job that goes into safety every 4 days without access to the On-Watch. That being said even without the On-Watch they should have stumbled into it after 6 trips.

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chapchap70_2

He stated the company changed the transformer.

Paul_11

look at the whole combustion process not just the burner

I'm curious if the burner goes off at the same time (approximately) each day like in the early morning or does it happen at all different times.

I have chased many regular early morning lock outs and never has it been the easy stuff, like electrode settings, nozzles, etc. Now, it's true that I don't get involved until the easy stuff has been looked at over and over again. Yes the original guy who did the cleaning could have caused a problem, but now that a real oil tech has been there a few times, (and I hope the company did send a good tech now that they have a real problem on their hands) I doubt that this turns out to be something like a burner adjustment.

Usually I have to step back and look at other things, like the fresh air or chimney draft. I encourage you to step back and look at every aspect of the entire combustion process.

Once I found a next door neighbor putting a rug over the fresh air inlet in the early morning because the burner noise bothered her. Once I found that all I had to do was leave the soot clean out door open and the problem went away.

I would also have the original guy who did the cleaning come back and ask him exactly what he did. Even little insignificant things like closing a window a little bit.

I had a guy board up his fresh air inlet window because the neighbor's cat kept coming in. It was a gas Riello on a Viessmann Biferral and he almost killed his whole family. Luckily the Riello shut itself down first. This one was easy to figure out though.

I hope you let us know what it was when you do figure it out.



Respectfully,

Paul B. Shay
pshay@arealgoodplumber.com
LMP 1307
LMFS 654B
212-505-1837
917-939-0593
OUR MISSION: TO PROVIDE WORLD CLASS PLUMBING, HEATING, AND SPRINKLER SERVICE TO EACH AND EVERY CLIENT WE SERVE, FAR EXCEEDING THEIR HIGHEST EXPECTATIONS!

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jeff_94

on watch meter

I purchase every kind of meter I can Get my hands on. I was taught early not to be a parts changer, and if Your not testing your guessing. Could you tell me a little about the onwatch, and were I can opurchase it. If it does what is sounds like it does it might be a worthy investment. I've had numerous lockout is problems especially with carlin ignighters. The company can say what they want about it, but the problem still continues. I find it funny when the company tells me that I'm just condeming the part, that I'm just changing parts, that I'm not testing them properly.....etc.etc. I've spoken to many techs that have the same problem time and time again. Anyway enough bashing the company(I'm sure they read these posts, maybe they take responsibility someday, anyway it just bothers me because the carlin doesn't look bad when we have to go back to calls a few times, finally catching the problem,we do. anyway if there is a product that will help me diagnos things more professional please let me know.

Steve_35

OnWatch & Carlin

You can find more info about the OnWatch at www.onwatchinc.com

It's a tool that the company should provide for you.

As far as Carlin, there was a time where they had a pretty high failure rate. I don't recall what the date code was but I think it was either 2004 or 2005. Units after that have been very reliable. Call and talk to their tech support. They were very forthright with me.

jeff_94

on watch meter

I just checked out the sight(very cool) Do you know how much they go for. As for my company buying it, I'm not sure if they would flip the bill.

Steve_35

Here's a link.

It's about half way down the page. The one we're talking about is the Model 51.

http://oiltechtalk.com/OTT_Store/store.htm

That's why I suggest the company purchase it. Especially if you're flat rate.

Weezbo

As a thought...

soot is a tricky thing...it can cloud the fire eye(flame sensor/cad cell) easily upon start up or in mid fire like that..it may even be the aim is not stuck in place correctly.

there is where my thought goes first thing...

Dave_4

lockout

I agree with Al . When I get a call that a unit keeps locking out and it didn't do it before it was cleaned, I look at the nozzel . ( people are down sizing the nozzle and there is more to it than just a smaller nozzle ). Or the electrodes are not set correct .


Dave in NH

Glen

recently -

we had a similar problem - turned out to be a fuel issue. Summer time fuel trying to work at freezing (or less temps). Drove several good techs wild. So it must be asked - when was the last fillup???

tommyoil

On Watch

Is available right now @ oiltechtalk.com. in the OTT store.

pipefitter#51

Burner update

Just to answer a few questions posted on this saga, when this all started the burner would go 1 to 4 days before tripping with the shortes being 4 hrs. and the longest 12 days. It would trip any time of day but the most common is early morn., when the heat & hot water are used most? Last night the burner would not stay on and it was the first time I got to see it trip off. I hit the reset, the burner went into pre-purge, fire off and run 2 min. and shut off and post-purge with the red light blinking on 65 sec. reset. The burner would reset, go into pre-purge and then shut off on trip. Did this 3 times and the 4th time it only ran4 sec. and shut down. Called the tech and he firmly belivies the problem is in the burner and the only part that has not been replaced is the pump. He came and put a new pump on and fuel shut off saftey valve also. It's been running fine so far but like I said it once ran 12 days. Steve D.

tommyoil

Quick Question

Has anyone ONCE taken either fuel pump vacuum readings or fuel pump pressue readings either today or on earlier calls BEFORE the fuel pump was changed out? Weezbo pretty much summed it up in an earlier post. Its good advice.

Leo

I have seen

I have seen something similar after a cleaning. A system that was serviced yearly. For some reason after this particular service it would occasionally lock out. The customer was ready to quit us when one of the guys was there and heard the pump begin to whine from oil starvation. For whatever reason during the cleaning something got freed up and lodged in the oil line causing a partial restriction that would starve the oil on a long run. (your morning shower period is probably a long run) Anyway, he pumped the sludge out of the line and the problem went away.

Leo

pipefitter#51

11/25 180 gals. Steve D.

burnerman_2

check the pump screen

a lot of times when a new furnace/boiler they do not change the fuel filter then the customer waits three years to have his boiler cleaned i have had many calls where the screen needed replaced or a pinched fuel line one time a customer placed a 5 gallon bucket of sealer on copper line pinched it shut

Darrell

Another easy way, (for a good serviceman), to check the flame quality is to jump out the F-F terminals AFTER a flame has been established and put your handy ohm meter on the yellow wires...should have a nice steady reading under 1600, (I think...better check me on that). It is very common to have a flame that holds the cad-cell in just barely and then drops out occasionally. It has to drop out for the lockout time, either 15 or 45 seconds for the primary control to lockout or go to recycle. A high ohm reading can mean several things...a dirty cad cell, a dirty "picture" of the flame because the drawer and static plate are not clean, a flame that is not bright enough, (poorly adjusted), or a cad cell that is not aimed correctly. The cad cell can get loose in the receptacle too, especially if a hammer handed service man has taken it out to "clean it."

DO NOT LEAVE THE JUMPER ON THE F-F TERMINALS...THAT IS THE SAFETY FOR YOUR BOILER. MOST CONTROLS WILL NOT START IF THE JUMPER IS IN PLACE. IF THE JUMPER STAYS IN PLACE AND THINGS ARE NOT RIGHT...THINK BOOM!

brucewo1b

Good Cal Darrell

But while your at it jump out FF with a 1500 Ohm resistor and if the control drops out after saftey lockout time or it sputters then time to change the control

Darrell

Never thought of that, I'll have to add that to my bag of tricks!

And just when I thought I knew everything too!!!

pipefitter#51

Well it seems the new oil pump & saftey valve have fixed the problem, so far, but I am hiring a independant service tech to come check the hole system out and set the burner up with a efficency test. If anything it seems this post has been very informative to allot of people and I've definetly learned what the difference is between what a good proffesional service tech is and what isn't. The best quote "If your not testing, your guessing".

Maine Ken

So now everything on your burner has been changed. Compare that cost to a completely new burner----ouch!

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pipefitter#51

I have a service contract with the co., as far as I know, no charge, and this was from the owner when I called after the 7th service call to complain it wasn't getting fixed, where not going to charge you for this.

Maine Ken

Excellent for you in the billing department! Unfortunate for you in the service side. Alas, it is running now! Hopefully with good combustion numbers.

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Frank_50

Carlin Burner Trips

I also have have a Carlin Burner and mine has gone through 4 solid state ignighter packs in 3 years. This last one works when it feel like it. The last time it failed to light it took 3 ttal power down cycles to get it started. I can't figure out what is causing the failures. The old transformers lasted about 8 years each and they say this id new and better. The other cause of burner trip that I have had is clogged filters. Lately the oil is so bad the filters last about 6 months. My burner is about 19 years old so my next move is to replace the Carlin with a Becket. Well that's my 2 cents

Big Bob_2

You dont need to replace the burner, just replace the ignitor with a beckett ignitor, the carlins are known to be bad

Steve_35

Most likely

the problem isn't with the oil, but with the filter setup and the way the tank has been maintained. We run into this all the time.

You should have a General type filter with removable media at the tank and a 10 micron filter like a Garber at the burner.

If there is ANY sludge at the tank it needs to be treated. This is a maintenance issue, not a fuel issue. When was the last time the fuel pump filter was replaced or at least cleaned?

Carlin did have issues a couple of years back with their solid state transformers. I don't recall what the date code was but we haven't had any problems with ones we've put on in the last 18 months or so.