Indirect Water Heater what's best?

John McArthur_2

I have used both brands and never had a performance issue with either. I think the Triangle has a lower pressure drop than the Super Stor and I like the aquastat well location on the Triangle better.

The biggest issues I had with the Triangle were thermal siphoning when piped per their instructions (in bottom, out top) and leaking at the SS hot and cold taps.

GW

coil versus tank

I'm sure someone here has some experience with how different indirects compare with each other. I realize the Euro tanks are better (can we please keep this topic focussed on USA tanks???), but when it comes to good ole USA tanks, how does a coil HX like SuperStor compare to a tank style (maybe there's a better description) like Triangle's Smart tank.

We're always looking for "good better best", I've used a bunch of Superstors over the years 'just because'. If the performance is better with the tank style, that would be nice to know.

It just dissapoints me that there's no drain at the bottome of the tank though!

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Leo

Gary

"It just dissapoints me that there's no drain at the bottome of the tank though!"

Do you guys pipe the drain according to instructions? It has a syphon effect. I used to work for a company that used them. Now I see them put in by other companies with out it.

Leo

Chris_82

Tanks

The triangle, for me was clearly easy er to install and is less expensive, I like the push connections and the fact that in low clearance installs they can be placed on their side, you loose a little efficency, when they are on their side, but we have been placing them on the ground, in a cradle and putting the mod/con boilers on top. saves a lot of space. Something to be aware of is that the HTP products seem to have more problems with leaking connections as already note'd However they HTP have been getting a little more militant about their returns, basically like the munchkin boilers they want us to purchase a new unit as part of the warranty procedure and then OR they want to see the installation either way they are fast becoming a big hassel to work with and refunds are taking months, and thats if they decide if your worthy of a refund vesus pro rating the tank...ask before you purchase, know the warranty procedure before you buy! Same goes for the triangle, but I havent had any problems yet. And yes the triangle pipen schematics are hard to follow and can be confusing.

GW

piping

we don't currently install them, but I will pay attention to the diagram when we do.

Thanks

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GW

good point

We had a SS leaker a while back; we needed to prove we installed another unit so the warranty could get processed. What's up with that? What if the HO said, "Gary, put something else in", where would that leave me????

Then we got a call from our local wholesaler (who processed the warranty) saying HTP called them and said it wasn't leaking...Kinda bugged me a little, essentially referring we can't tell a bad tank from a bad threaded connection. I beleive we still got the credit, but now I think I'll send an email to my office girl and have her 'make sure'. Put a bad taste in my mouth!


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Al Gregory

Ive got an 80 gallon SS in my own home and its leaking around the bottom. The house is only 3 years old and its been leaking all fall. I have a new tank in the garage to put in. Just havent had the time and or ambition, I was really suprised to see it leak. I kept thinking it must be the well or one of the nipples leaking inside the insulation but I checked the all and its the tank. Better my house than a customers though i guess

John McArthur_2

The Triangle has a sticker on the tank denoting "boiler in" and "boiler out". It indicates in through the bottom and out the top. This creates some buoyancy balancing over heating issues.

Siggy really emphasizes going the other way to avoid problems. I just make sure to let our guys know to pipe it top to bottom. Hey, at least they are reading the label!

I have not had any SS leaker's, YET, but I'll bear this in mind for the future.

Unknown

Stickers,

I had A TT and the stickers were vice-versa, I had to contact them to get the matter cleared-up, maybe someone was "asleep-at-the-switch" or something!, and I usually replace the plastic dip-tube with copper(I don`t trust them), then I "trap" the outlet, barring that I`ve no prob.

Dave

Dave_4

T-T Piping

The rectangular TRs (return over supply) pipe opposite the Smart tanks (supply over return). T-T still has the odd piece of literature that is backwards. I actually can't see how it would matter that much one way or another given the design. The water is pretty well free to go which ever way it wants once it hits the outer tank.

Gary, if you are looking to offer only American made tanks, my Smart tank has a little sticker saying "Made in Belgium".

Dave_4

Was it a the TR model Dave?

Some TTs are supply over return.

Unknown

UniR,

I told the guy to get(supplied himself) a "Smart 40", but he wound-up with an HL36. The installation manual said "supply in the bottom", but the "stickers" said the reverse, that`s why I had to contact TT.

Dave

GW

pun intended?

we install plenty of German stuff, but in our sales process we offer several layers of options.

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Unknown

Gary,

Isn`t that Belgianese? LOL!(No ethnic slur intended!)

Dave

kevin coppinger_4

My 2 cents...

would push for the New Vaughn Top Performer...Nice tank and a very competitive price compared to the others...made in Salisbury, Mass...kpc

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[Deleted User]

TurboMax

http://thermo2000.com/content/en-US/s2_produits/optimizer.aspx

It KICKS some SERIOUS BTU BUTT...

Wondering when American manufacturers are going to catch on to this reverse indirect craze...

ME

Bob Sweet

Heat flo

makes a nice selection of indirects (coil) including a low boy 60 gal and 40 gal tank. I believe they are made in either northern Mass. or the Portland ME area.

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hr

Not many made in the USA

Even the Crown and Burnham are import. I believe the steel Contender from HTP is an import.

I have used some Vaughn stone lined tanks that are domestic made, mostly on solar DHW systems. They seem to last forever. At least around here.

I did have an issue with an ErgoMax reverse indirect this year. I used one with a Clean Burn waste oil boiler, mainly for a buffer tank.

This is in a Ford/ New Holland tractor dealership. Little by little they lost flow in the handwash sinks. I checked everything including the 3 way thermostatic.

Finally I cut the copper loose from the cold water supply. The three 1/2 tubes that connect to the 1-1/4" feed pipe were scaled almost completely shut.

I suspect the combination of low flow with 1.75 gpm sink faucets as the only draw, fairly hard well water, and high operating (190F) temperatures all added up to the problem.

I ended up installing small electric point of use tanks at the sinks. It still functions as the boiler buffer but my "free" DHW concept went up in smoke. Or scale!

Something to consider with low flow rates and hard water, with those 3 small diameter copper coils in that reverse indirect styled tank.

hot rod

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Steve_35

Vaughn is great on retunrs

We've installed several and had our first leaker this year. Just return the label to the distributor for credit.

MUCH less hassle than getting a new well on a 2 year old SuperStor. Have I mentioned how bad HTP is at standing behind their products?

[Deleted User]

Sounds like an excellent application for...

Magnetic water conditioners.

$50.00 is a lot less money to spend than having to replace/rebuild the system, and I have seen them de-lime/de-scale existing accumulations of lime scale.

Cheap insurance.

ME

J.C.A._3

Hey M.E. ,

Surprize bunky.....We're in the process of re-heating and hotwattering a restaurant and I will be using a TurboMax !

I think Mr. Milne showed the pictures of the "dead soldiers" that have gone to greener pastures previously.

Other than the poorly written and diagramed instruction books,these hot water makers are the real deal. The recovery and flow rates are WAY above any of the indirects I've had the pleasure to work with, and in high flow situations are the Bees Knees.

Pictures to follow. Chris

Chris_82

Excellent point about water...

In the coil tanks running at 180 and above, esp the ss and amtrol units with less developed length in-side, the larger temp difference clearly causes build up and shortened life. YA I know we can stick clr or that lime disolving stuff in the tank for an half hour or longer but in one of our laundromats the ganged 80 SS units lasted only 3 years before they had to be swapped out, They could no longer keep up! we replaced them with double the storage capacity and tempered the incoming h20 to half of what it was, 130 deg., at about 400 gallons 10 years and not a peep out of the customer. Took up a lot of room however. Now a days I steer laundrys to an designer and larger tanks, versus the multiple tank homeowneer type design. but I still feel higher temps mean more build up and shorteer usfull life and certain designs are more prone to this.

J.C.A._3

Not to slam.....

Vaughn tanks are lovingly referred to as the "underperformer" right here in their own back yard. Personally, I've thrown more away than I ever installed.

Again, JMHO. Chris

laurence salvatore_2

There are a lot of TT products here i south western Conn. All our trucks have TT thermostat replacements because they don't seem to last more than 18 months max. We will not recomend them. Whenever I am passing by one even if it is to shut the water off to change an angle stop,I always check the temperature. Its usally around 180 degrees, rather dangerouse for domestic hot water. They do however make prodigiouse amounts of hot water. In reguard to all the others; a stainless coil in a stainless tank, is a stainless coil in a stainless tank. Performance is in the piping and in the controls. My family of 5 has trouble running down my 40 gal super store with 1" coil (cast off by client doing massive addition) piped in 1" and controled by a mere 1" honeywell zone valve. I think the 1" coild makes a bit of difference, but they all seem to heat up incredibly fast and keep up effortlessly when piped and controled correctly

[Deleted User]

Good for you Chris...

You will be AMAZED at how well it works. It's a literal BTU sponge, sucking up everything you throw at it...

Look forward to the pics

ME

ScottMP

Here's a Vaughn coil

We pretty much find this on most of thier tanks we pull.



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Steve_35

Is that scale

or was the coil leaking?

ScottMP

Scale

and mud



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Chris_82

s. milne

That's what we have been experencing with many of the coil designs. And higher temps...I try'd to post on another thread about this but the question was I think by lowering the temp. and increasing the size we have been getting a longer life out of all the coil designs. New England just isn't ready and I suspect it's not necessary for Amway or many of the water treatment systems that are so prevelant and necessary as in Arizona and the western states or any area that has large scale water quality problems as suggested. Any thoughts. We have had 80 gallon systems loose effeciency at 180 deg. within 3 years. The same system was lowered considerably to 140 deg. and the tank size trippled, this particular instalation has been running trouble free for over 6 years and not a peep from the customer except thank you.