Acid for boiler

John Gross

Based on the description of the Hydro-solv it sounds great for post treatment but does not sound like it would take out heavy mineral deposits. Sounds good for sludge and oil.

John Gross

Acid for boiler

Which would be preferable to disolve mineral build up in my Vailant boiler--Hydrocloric or Muratic? Or another?
Thanks

Brad White_164

Muriatic

is commonly used for mineral etching, effluoresence and grout washing, so that would seem to be the logical choice for me.

Acetic acid may also be effective depending on the amount of fouling you are trying to remove.

Hydrochloric acid is particularly agressive on organic substances (skin, hair, etc.). I do not know how it reacts with minerals but the risks tell me not to use that, save it for drain opening.

One has to ask why you have such mineral buildup in the first place. I hope you took care of uncontrolled boiler feed water first and I imagine you did just that.

Personally, you may have a blessing in disguise

John Gross

Thanks

ALH_4

acid

I thought muriatic acid was just another name for hydrochloric acid, but I am no chemist. Is there a difference?

Why not use the Rhomar treatments recommended in the other thread? I would go that way first.

Brad White_164

You are correct!

I never knew that, always assumed it was it's own chemical... I have both, wear gloves and goggles with each, but the Muriatic seems far less aggressive. It must be more dilute than the "Wham" drain opener.

Just looked it up on Wikipedia... duh. Muriatic is indeed HCl but is diluted to 30% in water.

Thanks, Andrew. I learn here every day.

Agreed on the Rhomar HyroSolve.

Anna Conda

Correct: It's the same stuff, HCl. Muriatic acid is the older name; the name "hydrochloric acid" reflects the chemical composition. Hydrochloric acid is the choice for acid-cleaning industrial boilers. It reacts with calcium and magnesium scales (vigorously, I might add...) to dissolve it and leave the boiler metal clean. It's neutralized with sodium hydroxide (soda lye) HCl and NaOH exchange cations to produce NaCl and HOH -- salt water ....really sludgey salt water It's an inherantly dangerous procedure that requires training and PPE, not something an inexperienced person should attempt by themselves, not if there are safer products on the market for the residential application.

ALH_4

scale

It does say it will remove scale. Isn't that what you are trying to remove? Maybe I misunderstood. I would certainly rather work with Hydrosolv than HCl.

John Gross

CLR claims to remove scale also however it did not help the problem, ( This was recommended by Vailant). I feel it is time to bring out the big guns or look at replacing the boiler. This is in my mother-in laws house. (we happen to be staying there through her recovery and the noise is becomming very annoying).

gerry gill

i'd feel safer

using rydlyme.

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realolman

I have used a product called "Sizzle" by Hercules on my boiler. I believe it was Hydrochloric acid, I don't remember... But I do remember a few things. Use goggles and any other safety gear else you think is appropriate, and have ventilation. READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.

This is how I ended up doing it.

Leave about 10-12 hrs to do the job, maybe more. It's pretty much of a of a pain in the anus. Hook up a hose to something high on your boiler to vent the gas produced outside; into a bucket with a couple of inches of water in it. If you close everything off it will pop your popoff. The stuff stinks and I doubt it's too good for you... Might even be flammable... I don't know. I do know you don't want it in your house.

You will know when the product has done all it's gonna do when the bubbling in the bucket outside stops. See if the boiler water is still acidic. It comes with litmus paper. If it is still acidic , and the bubbling has stopped , that's all the stuff is gonna do. If it's not acidic I guess you'll need more. READ THE DIRECTIONS on how to dispose of it.

You might even clear some sort of mineral deposit out of a hole and cause a leak you didn't know you had.

Good luck

lee_7

I PERSONALLY STAY AWAY FROM HYDROCHLORIC ACID AFTER SPENDING TWO DAYS IN TRAUMA BURN CENTER FOR BURNS TO FRONT OF MY THIGH. OLD COMPANY USED IT TO CLEAN CONDENSORS AND SPILLED SMALL, I MEAN SMALL - A FEW DROPS-- ON PANT LEGS. WASHED OFF RIGHT AWAY, DIDN'T HELP. THIS ACID IS VERY AGGRESSIVE TO CALCIUM IN BODY, WHICH IS NEEDED FOR MUSCLE MOVEMENT, I.E. BREATHING AND HEART BEAT. THIS STUFF SHOULD BE TAKEN OFF SHELVES. BURN DOCTORS SAID ONLY HVAC AND GLASS ECHING STILL USE THIS STUFF.

ALH_4

safety

This is why I would try the Rhomar chemicals first.

hr

Rhomar is an alkaline

and it will not touch calcium or lime build up.

Hercules Sizzle is made just for this application, about a 2 ph, and comes with a ph test strip to assure you get a good clean flush.

How did the hardness get into the boiler. A leak and a constant fill would be about the only way. initial fill is rarely the cause.

hot rod

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ALH_4

Hercules

Is Sizzle just acid or is there more to it?

bovide_4

lee

are you OK now?

Larry (from OSHA)

Lee, what you are describing

sounds like hydrofluoric acid which is EXTREMELY nasty stuff. I've seen it in glass etching places and in one it actually corroded away the eyelet holding a hoist over tanks of the stuff. Very bad news when it came crashing/splashing down.

Larry

realolman

my purpose in responding was to share my experience with a boiler cleaning product... not to endorse any. I wanted to convey that it IS kind of nasty.

You need to use Personal Protective Equipment, which should include goggles, face shield, rubber apron, rubber gloves, and boots. and READ THE INSTRUCTIONS

I don't even know if it did my boiler much good, but I wasn't going to be satisfied until I tried it. It definately produced gas for 7-8 hours.

I'm satisfied now.

ttekushan_3

like others

from nu-calgon, etc. these are inhibited acids. I'm not a chemist, but they claim that the inhibitors protect the metals within the system for awhile while the acid works on the calcium. So you may have 4 or 6 hours of metal protection. YOU MUST GET IT FLUSHED OUT OF THERE before the inhibitors begin to fail. Then neutralize till your water is a 7 or 8 pH.

You must test for low pH before mindlessly dumping an alkaline water treatment so you don't have a violent reaction. A good maintenance water treatment can be wonderful, like the Rhomar but like anything else you have to measure pH to know what you're doing.

If you go with an alkaline, a certain amount of scale can be dissolved, but there's a danger of ever increasing pH and the caustic attack that goes with it. And it WILL eat the metal even though its not acidic.

These are instructional warnings from me, as I have never advised anyone to do this themselves, especially if they seem a bit "unreliable" or careless to me!

Great care and personal protection are mandatory as is the measurement of pH through the process.

Once completed, though, the cleanliness and high water quality solves all sorts of system problems that might have been real stumpers before.

-Terry

lee_7

yes, everything healed ok and blood work and heart good. former employer just laughed and thought incident was a big joke. "I get that stuff on me all the time" the service manager told me. they wouldn't even pay for the time I was in hospital. That's why they are my former employee.

gerry gill

don't be crazy..

be safe and get the results you desire..rydlyme works wonders and is safe..heck we run it thru the coffee maker..just look at their client list..if it was good enough for the navy, it'll work in your boiler. http://www.rydlyme.com/clients.html

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Dwight (Rhomar Water Mgt.)

Hydro-Solv 9100 cleaner

Most of the residential hydronic systems that are said to have scale actually contain large amounts of iron corrosion products due to lack of any protective treatment. If you can get a sample to look at or test and it is dark brown or black and will stick to a magnet it is corrosion debris. HCL will not have much affect on this. You need very high hardness water or a leak to get enough calcium to get calcium carbonate scale. I think you had said that you had already tried a acid product and it didn't work. This would also indicate a corrosion problem and not calcium scale.

The Hydro-Solv 9100 cleaner is a mildly alkaline detergent cleaner for scale, corrosion and oil/grease. It contains corrosion inhibitors to protect metals and two chelating polymers to remove scale, either iron oxides or calcium. It is slower to work then acid is on calcium but is safe to use and handle (and dispose of). As long as there is no aluminum you can leave it in the system for days or weaks to do the job.

Using HCL is messy and dangerous. It can damage your body and the system if not used properly. I would recommend trying the Hydro-Solv first. It usually does the job if enough is added and it is left in the system long enough.

If you get the system cleaned, the Pro-Tek 922 treatment should prevent this from happening again.

I have to leave the office now but will check for questions on this tomorrow if possible or you can email me direct.

Dwight