Circulator Question

Unknown

pump away from your heat source, and have a good air separator before entering the pump.

Dave

The Boiler Dr.

Standard In Line Circulator Question

Was involved in a discussion regarding the installed orientation of a Armstrong "S" series circulator.
The pump has been reinstalled horizontally with the "high" side of the volute in the up position. The system has had a history of air elimination problems and now it is possible to hear air gurgling in the volute especially on start up. I can find nothing in Armstrong's literature that specifically identifies whether this is "not recommended practice" or not. Logic leads me to believe that it will be extremely difficult if not impossible to prevent air from remaining trapped in this high point and causing premature deterioration of the impeller as well as loss of pumping efficiency.
Your thoughts and input greatly appreciated.

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Empire_2

PONPC......

I really think if you
'Pump Away", there should not be an issue unless there is something that not mentioned. I have never, (thank GOD) had a problem with air associated with pump location. I try to follow good practice like the doctors do and learn from that.:-)

Scratch that last statement, some Dr.'s learn as they go and make crap up to confuse you and then say there is a certainty that there is no uncertainty, but they will sure try hard to make you uncertain about the outcome of the Insanity.. .... get that..lol..

:-)

It's Friday I'm tired and it's also beer:30 sorry about the rant:-)



Mike T.

The Boiler Dr.

It is installed like that

I think you moght have missed the specific point of the question.
Here is a litle more info:
2.5" circ on 2" line
Concentric reducing couplings located 3" on each side of circ
Highest point of volute is 2.55" above top of horizontal line
Does that help paint a better picture?

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Unknown

Boiler Guy

> I think you moght have missed the specific point

> of the question. Here is a litle more

> info: 2.5" circ on 2" line Concentric reducing

> couplings located 3" on each side of

> circ Highest point of volute is 2.55" above top

> of horizontal line Does that help paint a better

> picture?

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 439&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_



Dave

Unknown

Boiler Guy

Are you "really " a boiler guy?????????????we are talking about A HW boiler, right?

Dave

Empire_2

Either way BG,

Little more info does nothing, but can you tall us about the system? WHERE IS THE exp. tank., pressure on the boiler etc. Like I said, air can get trapped, but if it's pipped correctly, there should be no issue..

Give all info not just a little. Just trying to understand your problem.
;-


Mike T.

Weezbo

i read you.

it just seems like the air will be trapped there....you purge the system ,the sparky vent will do the rest.

its going to work and its going to work right...the only whack location would be to have the pump, up, with by 90's down on both ends...then,...maybe it could be a hassel. tap up and over some pumps then you can have more than one use for the balancing ports...*~/:)

Boiler guy, it may be that the circ has some air problems that have already taken the toll on the impeller...was it installed 90 previously? motor Up? flooding the entire volute?

the size of the pump is such that when they want it installed in the horizontal thats pretty much given..

even though it is a bronze cirulator...it has an Oil port on it...that sometimes is not headed the direction it is designed to be "headed" three phase pumpss are some hardy individuals...dial it on the horizontal..with a test gage port before and after the pump...and dial the oil pumps cap so it is "Up"...i dont see any problem with adding a few drops of oil either at that time... maybe the other guys did you a favor..?

were you needing the GPM out of the pump ? is it controled by a rib? for variable speed?

do you have a by pass? i have seen some instances where the local sabatourer had closed valves and never opened them again..That wont help flow for Sh...ugar .:)

The Boiler Dr.

OK .. I don't know what else to give you .. but ..

I agree... there "should" be no issue.... but there is...
I thought I had provided sufficient info but I guess not.
The building is a 4 story walk up with mechanical room containing 3 Ultra 230 boilers located in the basement. The S69 is pumping away from the expansion tank/purger (located within 4 feet) with Spirovent . System static pressure is 17# with a vertcal head of 34 feet using fin tube baseboard
As mentioned earlier, this circulator was recently relocated (by others) which necessitated flipping the volute body. The inlet and outlet of the pump body is now actually the lowest point. If the pump could have been left as it was, the inlet and outlet would have remained as the "high points", making air elimination naturally simple. Now, if a strait line was drawn from the top of the 2" piping on either side of the volute, the outside edge of the impeller eye is only 7/8" below that line. I "suspect" some air is remaining trapped in the "high point" of the volute. I was asked to determine why there appears to be a reduced flow and noise from the system. My expertise actually lies with steam systems.
I guess the bottom line is whether or not I am looking for something that may not exist.
Thanks for your response.

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The Boiler Dr.

Yes and yes

See other reply

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The Boiler Dr.

Still looking for input on this quandry

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Unknown

Boiler Guy,

I think I understand now,,,,,,,you`re talking about the "offset" in the volute body creating an air prob because it was flipped, right?

Dave

bob_46

As long as

the shaft of the motor is horizontal it doesn't make any difference. As B&G used to say, install with arrow pointing toward a wall. The arrow was on the motor. Merry Christmas

The Boiler Dr.

Yes, you are correct any suggestions?



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[Deleted User]

My Armstrong Catalog

says that S69 (3") bottoms out @ 160 gpm @ 14" of head. That's an awful lot of pump for what you describe. Is someone trying to compensate for a poorly designed system w/ an oversized pump. I think the engineers call it Safety Factor X 4.

If the installer was kind enough to provide isolation valves @ the pump, throttle the discharge valve, & see what happens. Just might settle down. I think the air you hear is being created in the pump.

Sounds like someone needs to re-calculate what is needed. Or. Try a Grundfos VersaFlo 3 Speed. A better "ball park" selection than the S69.

The Boiler Dr.

Good possibility

Who knows what came before. The installer just flipped and relocated the existing circulators. From my recollection (4 years back) the system was always quiet. The only difference I can physically see in this particular building is the inverted volute.

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