When does prefab make sense?

Ragu_5

There are 2 guys who work for the big oil company which is 30 miles away; they both are competent mechanics. They both take their company vans home each night, and they both moonlight evenings and weekends.

They both work for cash only (no checks). They both use comapany tools and parts on their side jobs. They both fuel their vans at the company's expense; they wear company uniforms and the company buys their licenses. Neither one is insured. They both consistently win bids over the rest of us because they sell the materials at their wholesale cost and work for cash.

I guess it has worked for them so far, but I just can't respect anybody who uses somebody elses resources to better their own lot in life. Greed is a funny thing and I have no tolerance for it.


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Gene Davis_2

Prefab boiler room

New construction, small simple houses, to be heated with oilfired HW, baseboard units, toe kick units in a couple rooms.

Our plumbing and heating resource is a very competent mechanic, but who can only work moonlight hours. We can help him by doing some of the grunt work such as running all the PEX lines, etc.

There are suppliers servicing our area that can engineer our total package, and furnish 100 percent of the components and materials, including an engineered, prebuilt, and pressure tested "boiler room" config of headers, manifolds, pumps, controls, etc.

We think this might make sense for us because of the limited hours our guy can give us. We don't want the installation time to drag.

What do you think?

mikea23

I am sure he is a very comptetent but to hire a contractor that can only give you moonlight hours sounds to me like a mechanic doing side work. You should probably check for insurance and License. Price is not the only consideration if he canot give you service during normal business hours how can he possibly service the homes. And to do all the grunt work for him sounds great but what if somthing fails it will be a finger pointing game with no resolution.A few years ago our company had to repair systems in two homes that were done by sombody doing side work it cost the builder alot more money in the end. The problems happend as always a 3 deg day you cant tell the family my plumbing contract does this on the side and he cant get here now your family just needs to freeze till he has time.
But to ans your question we prefab alot of mechanical systems in the shop we do it more for quality control and speed of installations.

Mike A

bb_7

ZCP

Gene:

ZCP has been around for years and is a great solution. What it gives you...

A complete warranty on everything inside the box.
Complete testing of components.
Meets UL requiremnts, and is certified.
Years of experience to back you up!

These guys are great. It will take you about an hour or so to hang it on the wall. Then pipe into it, connect the low voltage wiring, and plug into a standard outlet which is within a few feet of the panel.

It's the sure bet way to go! It may cost a little more up front, but it will get the job done a whole lot faster!

check them out @ www.zcpinc.com

bb

Ragu_5

I agree with Mike A.

Watch out! If the guy has moonlight time only, it means he works for somebody else during the day, and is NOT insured. Liability will fall back on you, as will mid-day "no-heat calls". Might want to see proof of licensure also. There is a reason for cheap! Good luck.

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Gene Davis_2

Don't worry about it. He'll be on our (GC) payroll, and we are well-insured. He just completed the work for a friend of ours, doing the systems in a 7-unit condo refitted from an old lakefront motel, for which pricing is high six to low seven figures per unit.

All done evenings, weekends, and holidays.

bob young

skell workers

Sounds like a real skell operation all the way around.

mikea23

> Sounds like a real skell operation all the way

> around.



I wanted to say that the first post

Bill Nye_2

License required

In my state of Connecticut a trade license is required to do plumbing, heating , or electrical work in any building that will be inhabitated by any one but yourself. Even then you could sell the house and some one other than yourself would live there.

It takes an absolute minimum of 6 years in the trade to get a license. This is to protect the potential home owner from contractors like you and your moonlighter mechanic.

I won't say I never moonlighted work, but now, knowing the potential liability, I wouldn't recommend it. That, and it just isn't fair to the legitimate people trying to make an honest living.

And yes, prefabbing is great. Especially if all the homes and equipment are similar.

steve_29

Well, as someone who moonlights on a regular basis...

I am licensed in Maine and Ma. and carry insurance.

I am also licensed to install and service gas appliances.

There's nothing wrong with moonlighting, as long as the customer knows and it doesn't interfer with your day job.

marc friedman

i beg to differ ...
tere's a LOT wrong with "moonlighting"

it starts with stealing work from legitimate businesses

it ends with service problems, no shows, no warrantee, etc

Gene Davis_2

No trade lic reqd in NY. We'll do just fine. When I was just out of eng school, I wuz supervising pneumatic control systems for steel mill furnaces. These little house heat packages will seem pretty elementary, once I get up to speed reading schematics.

It ain't rocket science. And I've passed rocket science.

steve_29

I'm not stealing anything from anyone.

I am a legitimate business, incorporated, insured, and licensed .

Customers have a right to deal with anyone they wish.

We also warrentee what we install, everything we do, is per manufactures recommendation, and performed in a timely professional manner.

To suggest that everyone moonighting is stealing from legitamite businesses and perform only substandard work is outrageous.

DanHolohan

.

EJ hoffman

Explosion danger lurks

Seen many installs of elementary rockets in fact you can see little houses and heaters shoot to the sky somebody save this page so we can see rocket Gene's houses go up and then clip this to the copy of the newspaper headlines.
Gene wants everyone on the wall to design him a cheap heat system(Earlier Post)
Next he wants us to tell him its ok to hire a moonlighter without a legitimate business. And show him how to set up a prefab heat system
Jimmy Buffet song "Desdemona's (Gene Davis) building a rocket ship"

bob young

flim flam tin men

THESE CLOWNS probably started out in the aluminum siding business. no talent , no integrity pro FLIM-FLAM scam artists. i pity the chump that buys a shack from them. they all eventually end up either in jail or dead.

steve_29

In the context your describing, I have to agree, they're stealing from their employer and comitting tax evasion.

My employer knows we have a side business and have come to an understanding their customers are off limits, including any that they're bidding jobs for.

We bid legitamite bids and most times we're not the low bidder.

DanHolohan

Bob,

this is the Wall. It's a different type of bulletin board. We treat people with respect here, even when we disagree with them. We don't insult each other, and we don't call each other names. We conduct ourselves professionally.

You may not have realized that, so I'm telling you. And now that you know, do you think you'll be able to stop insulting my other guests? Please remember that you are also a guest here.

Ted_9

your right....

it happens all the time. You know what though, the people that hire these low bidding moonlighters would never pay a professional business, that has real overhead, the price to do the job.


Massachusetts

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Steve Minnich_3

Bob

Contempt without investigation gets you nowhere.

Judge, jury, and executioner?

Flim flam tin men?

Steve (formerly The Tinman)



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bob young

Dan

sorry,Dan. my apologies. i will tone it down .

DanHolohan

Spoken like a man.

I respect that. Thanks, Bob. I appreciate your cooperation.

Gene Davis_2

You've no idea

Thanks to all who have provided input to my question re prefab.

First, you've no idea what resources we lack in the area in which we'll be building. We are in the poorest township in the poorest county of the state, with a very small population. There are no local plumbing and heating contractors with any experience doing anything other than the low end stuff they are doing. The mechanic we will hire and put on our payroll to do the installation, comes from another locale 1-1/2 hours away, where he does work on very expensive vacation homes done for the rich and famous.

At this stage, we are planning to have the whole system engineered, then furnished turnkey, by a downstate professional supply company. Everything will ship up to us for installation by our guy. The reason for the prefab work is to cut down on the site installation hours required.

rich pickering

I know of Gene from another board, and he is generally considered legit.

(Rich1)

mikea23

Lic

> Thanks to all who have provided input to my

> question re prefab.

>

> First, you've no idea what

> resources we lack in the area in which we'll be

> building. We are in the poorest township in the

> poorest county of the state, with a very small

> population. There are no local plumbing and

> heating contractors with any experience doing

> anything other than the low end stuff they are

> doing. The mechanic we will hire and put on our

> payroll to do the installation, comes from

> another locale 1-1/2 hours away, where he does

> work on very expensive vacation homes done for

> the rich and famous.

>

> At this stage, we are

> planning to have the whole system engineered,

> then furnished turnkey, by a downstate

> professional supply company. Everything will

> ship up to us for installation by our guy. The

> reason for the prefab work is to cut down on the

> site installation hours required.



Gene All areas in NY state have a lic requirment that is a fact any town, county,village in the state of NY is requred to by the state. If not the state will not subsidise them.

The only area in NY that does not follow state code is NYC they have there own code and LIC requirments and do not get state money to implement them.

As far as being in a remote area in NY thats fine but you still need to service the homes. I did a job on a remote island a few years ago we found the local plumber and had him come by the job site we showed him how the system worked and how to service it made diragrams and took service manuals and made a binder that stayed on the site for him. It took some time out of my day to explain the system but in the end he was able to service the home and the homeowner was happy you might want to try this in your area if it succesfull you and the potential buyer will be very happy.

Mike A