Bell and Gossett alert

Joannie_12

I sit in a manufacturing facility every day. There still are things that are made in the U.S.A., despite the pressure we get from our customers to lower our prices.

Bill Clinton_5

Bell and Gossett alert

Have just spent a frustrating 20 minutes trying to reach someone at Bell and Gossett regarding their NRF series circulators. Absolutely no body home. At least I can't get through to anybody except a phone answerer who can't connect me to anyone with responsibility.

We install the NRF series circulators on pretty much all our systems. We have very much liked them. Quiet and reliable.

HOWEVER: We just started getting NRF 22 s made in China. The first two failed within days. We pulled then apart. The rotor inside the can seems to be made of copper with a stainless band press fit around it. That stainless band is cracked on both of them. The band pulled away and contacted the inside of the "can" causing the pump to stop.

This is NOT a result of service conditions. This is a manufacturing problem. My guess is that at least a large percentage of B&G pumps coming out of China have this problem.

You would think B&G would want to know. This web site is probably the only way to get the message to them. Bad on them. Good on Dan.

Bill Clinton

DanHolohan

I just

gave them a heads-up. Thanks, Bill.

Bill Clinton_5

Thanks, Dan. Can you tell

me how to reach somebody there? The fact is, the B&G NRF pumps have been a big favorite of mine and I hate to see them go down the tubes. This problem has led me to look closely at the new construction and I don't much like what I see.

The NRF is no longer a wet rotor pump. The "can" now simply has a small amount of oil in it: Looks like the intention is to keep a layer of oil between the rotor and the can. Better be dang certain the shaft is horizontal or the oil will run to one end and puddle. Also, on a small circ like the NRF 22, it has heretofor been possible for the unit to survive a brief period of locked rotor: The water kept it from getting super hot. On one of the two we took out of service, the pump had been stuck for two days and all the oil was burned black.

I want my old NRFs back!

Bill

DanHolohan

I sent

several heads-up e-mails, Bill, and I'll let you know when I hear from the right person. Should be soon.

Marianne Szczech

Bill's concern on B&G NRF's

Bill,

Thanks for the heads up. We are trying to determine the cause of this problem. Per our phone conversation earlier, I will get back with you on this. Also, thanks for volunteering to take pictures of the pumps.

If anyone else is having problems with our products, please give me a call. My direct line is 847-983-5717.

Regards,
Marianne

P.S. I apologize for the difficulty in navigating our phone system. We are fixing it now to be more user friendly.

hr

I've heard the PL series

are eating up their thermo plastic impellers also? Seems they warp, rub, and cause them to run at a lower performance curve or delam altogether?

Causes some serious flow issues with flow sensitive boiler applications, ie mod cons, copper tube, etc.

Not a great place to cut costs in a pump impeller. Stainless works fine

hot rod

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Bill Clinton_5

more info for Marianne

Thanks for your response. I would like everyone to know that, once contact was made with Marianne, the response became excellent.

Apparently I was wrong about this not being wet rotor. I checked with my guys who took them apart and they said there was water in there. The fact that I saw oil in there on new uninstalled pumps led me to that false conclusion. Hadn't seen that before, but then, on other circs, you can't see the rotor at all, so maybe they have it too?

Bill

Bill

DanHolohan

Now that's

a good Chicago last name if ever I saw one! ;-)

Al Gregory

I used B&G for years then they all of a sudden stopped putting the bolts in the box with the circs. After that it was easier to buy Tacos because of the cartridge replacement. Nothing worse than having to sawzall off bolts and not have new ones to put on. Bolts arent easy to remember keeping in stock for me for some reason. If they started putting the bolts back in the circ box instead of with the flanges I would buy them again

Bill Jirik,

B&G quality

You knew B&G's quality was going down the tubes when they started shipping thier 1/6hp 2" and HV pumps with stamped steel couplers, under continuos duty they barely make it out of warranty and the coupling breaks, the permenant split capacitor motor may be electrically more efficeint but really lacks in starting torque, often we put a Supco spp5 air conditioning hard start accross the run capcitor to get a motor that needs that nudge with a screwdriver to break free.

mtfallsmikey

Please don't spread the bad B & G kharma my way!

I've got four 30 hp B & G pumps in my buildings!

bobbyg_2

Please keep us posted.

Hot Rod, I have had several PL-55 impellers "melt". I had circulator that had an original impeller go bad, then replaced it. Only to have the repl. go bad after two months. I was told by B&G there was issues with the impeller vendor not "heat-treating" these plastic impellers. Couldn't get any time window of affected impellers. B&G said it wasn't many............

Unknown

again with B&G

I have been using B&G since 70's and most stated here are right. B&G have gone down the tubes with their customers service dept... Their engineers, vendors don't listen... One with the series 100 bearing assys, have lost untold hours of billable service to repalcing them in warrenty, they just cheapened the products to maxized their profits at contractor's expenses ( as well the wholesalers) and aformetioned, where are those BOLTS ? U know, China make them too...
Its has been over TEN years now after I showed the reps and vendors what the very small changes on those flo control units can make every installers happy and keep buying them... All they say is huh huh.. I'll bring to the engineering dept. attention.
All I get was those stamped badge saying " all my parts are geunines", I will write down " china craps" in between...
Doubt this post will get their attention for better products and customers service

Long Beach Ed

Unfortunate

... but we've written them off too several years ago. It actually hurt my heart as they used to be favorites of ours.

One we saw that little gold "CHINA" sticker, we backed away, and it's a good thing. They all failed.

Long Beach Ed

DanHolohan

Not fair at all.

Look at this thread. Bill started it at 12:17, and Marianne answered it at 1:50 on that same day. I was also in touch with the B&G people as soon as Bill posted this. They had seen his post and were already in touch with him.

Rich_39

china crap

Anything made in the good ol U.S.A. any more. What a shame we usedto make the best stuff in the world. Now we dont make anything .shame on us.

harvey

Dan , It is fair

Without this site Bill would have ended up like I did trying to tell the rep's and B& G that their pumps were not holding up. NOBODY would listen. They told me they hadn"t had any other complaints (yeh, right). I took the easy way and went with Grundfos(:) & a three year warranty.

John T_3

Made in the USA

I can't ever remember buying a circulator because it was cheap. I do however look for the "Made in USA" label whenever I buy anything, and would gladly pay more to see it on the products I buy!!!

John T.

Custom Climate Systems, Inc.

Dexter, MI

jim_57

I bought

a small air compressor for my van to recharge expansion tanks. The box had Made in USA on it so I felt confident it should hold up for awhile. Surprise. It broke after just a few uses. Took it apart, found that the compressor itself was made in China, pressure gauge was made in Taiwan. Maybe the plastic housing was made in USA? Or maybe just the box?

Nick Ciasullo

I remember

back when we used to make 99% of B&G in the US (only the bearings were from Japan). Suddenly, a pump came out that was 1/3 the price and the Series 100 and its cousins became obsolete. The feeling at the time was that the wet rotor wouldn't last as long as a 100, but it will last long enough. The Lee Iacocca attitude to manufacturing product to be good enough had invaded our industry.

Fast forward 20 years and here we are today. When Bell & Gossett came out with the NRF-22, it was the best engineered, best manufactured pump on the market with a higher starting torque, smoother operation, higher efficiency, and higher head than the competiton - but it was a dollar higher. The silence at the counter was deafening. B&G started losing several dollars per pump to stay competitve, and still the pumps did not sell. Now they are built overseas, and are lower than the competition, and our sales are going up (I am the rep in Philadelphia, btw). It seems that it is all about the bottom line, not about the quality.

The question now becomes, how do you convince B&G that the masses are willing to spend more to get a better quality product that is made in the USA? Back when it was made here, very few would spend the extra money. I am sure that is the same today. What has changed that B&G would see it advantageous to bring the NRF home? Marianne's phone number is in the post listed above and mine is right here 215-604-6604. Help me sell made in USA.

More and more product is imported from China, as America becomes a country with no manufacturing, and a huge trade deficit, growing bigger every day. Personally, I am not happy about it, as Marianne will tell you, but the people seem to have spoken.

Couderay

B&G

So how much more would that NRF22 really be. Sign me up put it out there and I will buy.

DanHolohan

There are, I believe,

companies making small circulators totally in the USA, and these seem to be pretty well accepted, even in these trying economic times.

hr

B&G lost focus

on the small residential market. While competitors brought out a wider selection, 3 speeds, intergral checks, better warranty, starting devices, delta pumps, etc where's B&G.

I have attended their AHR parties and looks like they have spent their time and R&D on the large commercial sides. The big deal this year was the VSX Revolution.

I imagine it is hard to be a leader in all the products they offer, maybe the residential line will get some much needed attention soon.

I otice they have spies at some of the seminars I have attended. Hopefully trying to find the pulse of the residential hydronic market again.

I will say their Iso-flange is one of the best in the market. Don't stop there Big Red.

hot rod

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mtfallsmikey

I never

Pinched pennies to save a nickel, neither did Dad. We were extremely loyal to products like B&G, Honeywell, American-Standard. Our customers wanted quality, period. I for one did not flinch at the few dollars more for a NRF-22 vs. a 100.I never looked back once they came out. The cost of it was not much more than the cost of a 100 bearing assy., shaft coupling, and the additional labor. And it improved the system performance as well.