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raidiant pipping question

Ed Lentz_2
Ed Lentz_2 Member Posts: 158
in THE MAIN WALL
I just noticed two things. Did he say there are no transfer plates? and I think I see a zone for the garage.

Comments

  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    raidiant pipping question

    I had a raidiant heat system installed 1year ago in a newly constructed house and i dont think the system is working properly, the installer disagrees (he has come back and replumbed the boiler room since) the raidiant heat is a closed system.I have a slant/finn victory boiler the primary loop has a expansion tank then a tasco circ pump after that is 4 inches of pipe a 90 a ballvalve then a T for secondary supply 3inches further down is T for return 4inches past that is T for supply to another loop,3inches past that is return T ,then 2inches of pipe a 90 and back to boiler inlet.The first secondary loop goes into a manualy adjustable temp 3way mixing valve then a circ pump which feeds 6 control valves.The second loop feeds a esb 3way mixing valve a circ pump and 5 control valves there are no check valves in the system (installer says dont need them that control valves act as checks?)You might think its a big house with 11 zones.its not its 2600sqft 2 storey my gen contractor gave the installer a free run then gave me the whopper bill thats another story) 6zones downstairs run through pex pipe in slab upstairs 5zones run through pex stapled up under floor joists there is no outdoor reset and when a zone opens sounds like running water could this be air? i have given up on the installer i just want to get it running more efficently my gas bills 280 month i live in vancouver canada and its not cold any help would be great.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,162
    can you post

    Can you post a pic of the boiler piping and is each loop indivually controlled by a zone valve or aucurator valve if so may be need a pressure differental valve to reduce the flow and by pass a little pump head and reduce the velocity and flow through a single loop .Did your installer install a good main air elimator like a spriovent ?Also just wondering if the whole house is radiant why didn,t you go with a condensing modulating boiler at those lower radiant supply temp you might have a lower fuel bill being in the ideal condensing water temp range peace and good luck clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • ChasMan
    ChasMan Member Posts: 462


    My oil bill last month was 385 bucks USD.. for 2200 sft. Its warm here in Connecticut too. Dont feel too bad :-)
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    raidiant pipping question

    here is some pics
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    raidiant pipping question

    sending pics
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    heating pics

  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    just from looking...

    at the pictures it looks pretty good...how tight is the house?ID he use plates in the staple up installation? if air is a real problem you might need another air sep. in the secondary loop(s)....kpc

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  • John Ruhnke
    John Ruhnke Member Posts: 939
    Its in the controls.................

    Kieth,

    The first thing I would look at are the boiler cycles. If the boiler is short cycleing it could cost you a lot of money in fuel bills. It is the easiest to fix. Also look at the insulation factor. How well is the floor insulated under the radiant heating system? How well is it insulated under the slab?

    If you have a high water table and ledge and you don't have any insulation under the slab that will cost you a fortune in fuel bills.

    I would have put in computerized outdoor reset controls. They would have protected the floors better and saved you some more money in fuel bills.

    JR

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  • Ed_26
    Ed_26 Member Posts: 284
    radiant

    2600 sq. ft on each floor? or combined?
    Insulation under slab - type/quantity?
    Insulation in joists - type/quantity?
    Heat loss done? room by room/whole house?
    Any other equipment on gas? Garage heat? Snow melt?
    It is my understanding that a radiant installer must be certified in Vancouver. true? Has this install been inspected/approved?
    Piping looks OK, neat & orderly. What are the radiant temps & primary temps? system pressure? System glycol?
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
    3 way

    I cant tell because I cannot zoom close enough but is that brass 3 way with the black non electric installed the right way? I cant see the arrows.

    EDIT: I looked at Oventrops lit. and the first 3 way looks good.

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  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    raidiant

    ED to answer your questions 2600sqft total blue ridged styrofoam under slab ,fiberglass bats under floor joists south exp. very dry ground good drainage my main concern is how noisy it is the boiler sometimes short cycles like on for 30 seconds then off a minute then back on for 5 min the boiler temp goes as low as 12degrees cel.andtemp gauges at mixing valves go down as low as 18c is this normal also when a zone opens it sounds like running water i thought raidiant was quiter
  • Ed_26
    Ed_26 Member Posts: 284
    radiant

    More questions:
    non-slab radiant - do the joist loops have plates? Are they stapled to the floor or the joists?
    what is the system pressure? Also, see clammy & john's posts. The controls for this type of system are more important than the mechanicals in many cases.
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    raidiant

    the upstairs radiant is stapled to the floor no plates .the zone valves are Honeywell model v8043c motorized zone valves operated by a thermostat for each zone .the only pressure gauge in the system is in the boiler and it ranges from 10 - 25 psi its different each time the 3 circ pumps are taco 00 cartridge circulators model 007-f5 The first 3way mixing valve is a oventrop 3way mixing valve TRI-M PN16 the second mixing valve is a ESBE THEROSTATIC MIXING VALVE SERIES 30MR HOPE that helps i will post more pics
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    more pics

  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    more pipping pics

  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    pictures

  • radmix
    radmix Member Posts: 194
    radiant

    it looks to me that you have a bottleneck problem. to many 3/4inch zones comming off of a 1 inch three way mixing walve you also have no boiler protection.
  • radmix
    radmix Member Posts: 194



  • Ed_26
    Ed_26 Member Posts: 284
    radiant

    Yup - garage heat - is the garage insulated under slab? What controls garage & what temp. setting? Garage finished?
    & door on?
    Also notice that the sensor for the 3-way not insulated from ambient air. What controls domestic hot water? Are you sure you don't have some overheat issues?
    See other posts re: P/S piping, bottleneck etc.
  • keith_10
    keith_10 Member Posts: 15
    how to fix it

    Any sugestions on making it work better with out throwing a bunch more money at it? yes there is a zone for the garage. thanks keith
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