DIY tube job, nice! (hr)

hr

I limit my DIY projects to just tube installation. I supply and connect everything above the slab.

The customers for the most part want their system to be the best and work flawlessly. I've not had an issue with any changing the plan and returning 1/2 the tubing :) or anything.

Usually I do a drive by to check and take pictures. If not I ask they documant the installation with pictures or drawings. Some have even video taped the installation with voice recording as they film!

It's pretty easy to tell when you talk with, or meet the homeowner if they have the "right stuff' to complete their own installation.

It's always an option to refuse the job if you are uncomfortable.

My experiences have all been positive. I find homeowners are very gracious for a chance to be part of the project from a hands on stand point.

Gives them more to talk about when they tell all their friends about their radiant project. And contractor :)

hot rod

<A HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=144&Step=30">To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"</A>

hr

One of my customers

installed their own pex last week while I was out of town. I dropped material and went over the layout. The owner insulated, tubed, air tested and poured the job.

I connected a 30 gallon electric tank for a temporary until a wood boiler is added.

I installed 2- 5.5 KW elements and a seperate reset protected t- stat on the bottom element. Two 30 amp circuits will fire the elements together for a total of 10KW or 37,500 BTU/ hr.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ragu

Hot Rod

I never would have thought of changing out both elements. You've got a good head on your shoulders, young fella!

jp_2

?????

seperate reset protected t- stat

whats this for? don't understand, guess electrical interlock?

thanks

hr

Typically

an electric water heater runs one elemement at a time. The top element runs first, in a cold tank. When it hits the temperature it's set for, the power switches to the botttom element.

In this arrangement the top thermostat has the high temperature limit devise to protect both elements.

When I run both elements at the same time, I add a new thermostat with thermal protection to the bottom element. The wires from the top thermostat to the bottom one are removed.

So in essence I have two elements on two circuits, with two thermostats and thermal over temperature protection.

You can order electric water heaters from the factory in this configuration. Not generally an off the shelf item however.

Johnstone Supply has the parts to build this setup. You can actually get 6 KW elements also for a 12 KW or 40,900 BTU/hr output from a dual element arrangement. So for around 300 bucks you get a 10 to 12 KW electric heat source.

6000 watts divided by 240 volt (25 amp)still works on a 30 amp breaker. Those electric water heater thermostats are rated to 40 amp. Be sure to wire everything with #10 wire for a 30 amp load.

With LP prices at $1.76 per gallon, .07 per KWH power starts looking pretty good

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Dan Foley

DIY

Looks good, HR. We haven't had much luck with DIY'ers but with your guidance, I'd imagine it would be hard to screw it up! Do you have any disclaimers or hold harmless agreements in your contract to minimize liability and avoid trouble should something go wrong? -DF

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Weezbo

*~/:) sometimes ya can find a good one:)

there is a old school thought that if you do the work you know what you got tell the homeowner that i might be looking for some help next year

bob elmore

as a wholesale supplier we stock a 30 gal. elec. water
heater with two 5.5 kw simutaneaous elements. up charge
from mfg. is less than $20.00. very popular with our
customers for basement/garage, and geo-thermal.

jackchips_2

Weez,

does hot rod tell them about the 35 below when he says you might be looking for help? :-))

Jack

Weezbo

Well.....might not want to chirp up THAT part too much *~/:)

i f rough ins are a hassle in 30 above think of 50 below all of a sudden it becomes a LOT easier

Ericjeeper

My electric rates are.09 aKWH

Last time I bought oil I paid 2.29 a gallon.. My heat loss says I need 27,000 btu.
Right now I am on my second season of heating with a Bock 32E. and to be quite honest I am not as economical as I thought I would be.. would I be better off with an electric boiler?or large 80 gallon electric WH? I know my standby losses would be much better than the 6 inch hole in the top of my cutter tank.
sorry did not mean to hitch hike this thread.. But felt it was on the right track.. Thanks.. in the cold months last year I was using about 150 gallons of oil.in Jan I only used 70 gallons/.
I do not think my cost are high enough to merit the expense of a corn or wood boiler.. (large investment long time to pay back) How does anyone else see my situation?

hr

Eric

that's probably about the least efficient system I could think of

An oil fired, or any fossil fueled basic water heater is about the least appliance you could use for heating. I'd put that oil fired tank at around 75- 78% efficient. maybe less, depending on the chimney draft, and standby loss

They are inefficient when running, due to purposely built inefficient HX design. And inefficient when in the burner off mode due to the 6" hole from top to bottom through the heated water.

Couple that to the fact you are running through a HX, as I recall, you are taking a bit more of an efficiency hit.

I'd also check for liming in the A side of the HX. A small amount of lime or hard water build up on ANY HX really drives the efficiency down. It may need to be cooked out.

If you have some performance data on that HX, you could measure the delta t and compare to new condition performance.

That is a fairly small load, at 75%, oil at 2.29 and .07 KW, the yearly operating cost would only be about 60 bucks difference.

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

ALH_4

Hate to sound like a broken record

Laing EPR heaters are perfect for smaller applications like this. Standby losses are essentially gone, and there is excellent control of the heater as well as an outdoor reset option available.

The more Laing stuff I see, the more I like them.

-Andrew

Brian (Tankless)

Thanks for that,

Andrew.

I have always liked Laing's stuff, and thought I was familiar with all their offerings.

This has got to be the world's smallest electric "boiler" for smaller applications. And OUTDOOR reset TOO, and heat your DHW, nice to say the least.

Heck, even in larger installations, a person could use two isolated identical setup's.

They're definitely onto something there.

Thanks again.

Brian, in radiantly challenged (70*) Swampland.

hr

Laing stuff

Many moons ago... Heatway used those combo Laings on their small panels. I've worked on a number over the years.

They seem to air lock from time to time and that funky cermaic bearing wears away quickly. Maybe something to do with the position of the pump with the volute, and bearing at the high point.

It would present itself as a tripped thermal overload on the head of the unit. Pump quits circulating, wnen the ball wore away and the element would quickly overheat and trip the thermal over load switch.

Maybe they have had a design change? It was a problematic design, in my opinion.

But it is a nice package for small electric/ hydro 1 zone applications. Just keep an auto air vent as high, or higher than, the top of the circ pump

hot rod

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Andrew Hagen (ALH)

Rubber Tube

I have only worked with one of the older style Laing heaters. It is connected to polybutylene tube, and is running to this day as root warming in a small greenhouse. It actually outlasted the greenhouse due to an unexpectedly high snow load.

Just a thought, but could part of the problem be with the rubber tube? These new heaters have completely redesigned controls from the older one I worked with. The systems I have seen with rubber tube have always had some rubber "sediment" in them. I can see where Laing pumps might have difficulty with that.

-Andrew

Ericjeeper

3 phase?

dos the unit come in 240 single phase? I spent as long as I had avaialble waiting on the pdf pages to load.. and only saw 3 phase units referred to. Thank Eric Enk..
working 12 hour night shifts right now ao time is limited. Thanks for your replies

ALH_4

Yes

The EPR 6, 9, 12, and 15 are 230v single phase.

The wiring diagrams in the manual are somewhat confusing.

-Andrew