Question for Rudy - Fyrite Pro 125..................(Starch)

Kevin O. Pulver

about the limitations of the written word for conveying intended sentiments etc... That is all the more reason that if you put a capital LAME on someones post, you are obligated to let everyone know what you mean. The potential for raised hackles is just too great. You already know that, neither do your last posts indicate that you don't care. I'll just chock it up to you being a little quick with your posting finger. No hard feelings. Fair enough? Kevin

John Starcher_4

I was talking with one of my techs.......

....today, and we were discussing the Fyrite Pro 125.

Is it true that this machine is not reliable for checking ambient room levels of CO?

Had a client who thought he had a crack in the pvc exhaust for his furnace. Turns out, he didn't, but I asked my guy if he checked the room ambient air for CO. He seems to think that the Fyrite Pro will not accurately sample room air. Is this true??

Starch

Alan R. Mercurio_3

Ok so my name is not Rudy but I bet this is close to what he would say

The Fyrite Pro series can be setup by the end user to do either an 'automatic' or 'manual' calibration during the 60 second warm up period.

'Automatic' calibration means that the instrument will calibrate zero in the display until ambient carbon monoxide levels reach approximately 80 ppm's. Should ambient CO levels exceed this level, a 'CO sensor error' will be displayed.

'Manual' calibration means that the instrument will calibrate to whatever levels of CO are detected in the ambient air.

Typically we recommend the manual setting. This may help provide a warning to the contractor/inspector/etc., that they are working in a potentially dangerous environment.

By the way Starch, when I used my pro to check for CO in a dwelling I took it outside turned the unit on and then entered the house to see the levels if any. Hope this helps

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

www.oiltechtalk.com

Jim Davis_3

The Fyrite Pro is as accurate in ambient as any meter I have tested. In the program screen it needs to be programmed for "CO Zero" which means it will not zero out any CO the is present. If it is programmed for "CO AZ" it will zero out as much as 100ppm.

John Starcher_4

Thanks, Alan and Jim....

....I will double check, but I believe we use the "CO Zero" function.

Thanks for confirming what I thought to be true!

Starch

Alan R. Mercurio_3

You're very welcome.

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

www.oiltechtalk.com

Rudy

Interesting.....

Was doing calibrations at a distributer this week.

A guy brings in an instrument. I turn it on, it came up zero.

I tried to calibrate the co sensor, it acted really weird.

Took it ouside, it calibrated fine......

Brought it back inside, it went up to 27ppm.

I turned it off and reset the co sensor to do a "manual powerup".

Turned it back on, the reading came up - 27 ppm.

Both the low level alarms had readings.

Last fall, at another distributer, turned my instument on to demo to a guy..... Thing comes up 44ppm.

First thought was, "Oh great, the instrument is acting up", then thought "Wait a minute......".

44 ppm in the counter area, 131ppm in the warehouse. And the forklife guy recently had his 4th heart attack.....

I am constantly amazed at this technology - it is sensitive enough to even do some degree of breath analysis. Have someone who may have been exposed, take a deep breath for 20 secs and exhale into the instrument. If they've been exposed, you'll see a bump in the reading...

You, can certainly do ambient testing,

jp_2

what???

are you saying you are expelling CO?

unless the guy was 'breathing down your neck.'

if it was picking up ambient air CO wouldn't the breath be a heck,heck of a lot higher? after all, bad breath rises.

Rudy

Depends

If ya' don't test, ya don't know.....

jp_2

LAME!!!!!!!!

Rudy

How so?

Kevin O. Pulver

It's lame not to have one JP

Do you? Kevin

Timco

I for one would trust anything that man has to offer...and his instrument for that matter.

Tim

jp_2

rudy?

hey rudy, why did you edit your post?

kind of lame to do that and not report it as edited. covering your tracks I guess.....

sorry but whenever I hear "if you don't test you don't know" all I can think is you fear a discussion about the properties of CO. I've gotten this response several times when I've posed questions- real lame response.

sorry guys, I WILL NOT blindly follow anyone, but feel free to do so!

so what everyone seems to like to tell me is, if I have a CO analyzer Iam 'ALL KNOWING' and if I don't, I know absolutely nothing about CO and should never question the "Great Ones".


but I take it you are now a heart specialist?

if I can't ask for a reason or justification of a comment what the heck is this WALL for?

why do you FEAR to learn sometime?

EDIT: so rudy what does -27ppm mean?

seems before your edit, I read the post as this guy was exhaling 27ppm CO?

Mark Hunt

Well you are right about one thing JP


Without an analyser you know NOTHING about CO or combustion.

So now why don't YOU enlighten me about the properties of CO.

I'm here huckleberry.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jp_2

geeze mark

you really want to start throwimg stones?

a man who calls carbon dioxide inert? I can tell you never even took high chemistry....there back at you!


EDIT: so I take it from you, chemistry is just a sham? you guys discovered CO?

Rudy

Hang on there

jp, I have no idea what you are talking about ??? I did not edit my post.....

I certainly did not mean to be trite by my 'if ya don't test' comment - if that offended you, oh well....

And by the way, you can do breath analysis with the instruments. It is not a 'medical' test but if someone has been exposed, it will show up on the instrument.

Mark Hunt

That all you got?


Enlighten us huckleberry or tell your story walking.

Seems to me that you are the one throwing stones on a few posts lately.

Do you have anything to offer other than smart-**** pot shots?

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

jp_2

ok, I'll hang on

well thats odd then, maybe I was too tired when read your post? I don't remember reading the middle part.
and the heart attack part?

I agree you can do breath analysis. I was just questioning the 27 ppm, what I understood was ambient air, CO coming from someone in the room.

so the first part of your post doesn't make sense, seems like you only tell part of the story?

"""A guy brings in an instrument. I turn it on, it came up zero.

I tried to calibrate the co sensor, it acted really weird.

Took it ouside, it calibrated fine......

Brought it back inside, it went up to 27ppm.

I turned it off and reset the co sensor to do a "manual powerup".

Turned it back on, the reading came up - 27 ppm.

Both the low level alarms had readings. """"

what were you infering to here?

sorry to snap at you. I get a lot of mean spirted replies just from ask you guys and challenging you on stuff. seems everyone could learn from the discussion but prefer to tell me Iam not allow to question the 'great ones' and how wrong I am. though no one will tell me how & why I am wrong. funny.

jp_2

tell you what mark

I am not going to play your childish games anymore.

Rudy

No sweat, jp

What I meant by my post was that I was doing trying to calibrate a customer's CO test instruments in the counter area of one of our distributers. I've done hundreds of co sensor calibrations, never saw one act like this.
Suspecting there migh be CO in the ambient air (probably from a propane fork lift in the attached warehouse), I took it outside where it calibrated down just fine. Went back into the counter area, the co reading went up to 27 ppm CO (in the ambient air).

Like Jim was referring to above, I changed the configuration of how the co sensor powers up to do a 'manual power up of the sensor/as opposed to automatic.

In the auto mode the instrument will display '0' even when low levels are present.

After changing the instrument to the manual mode, I turned it on inside, when the 60 second start up period ended, the CO reading in the display came up 27ppm. Just like it is supposed to - I'm just always amazed at how well they do!!

I also carry two low level CO monitors, the NCI and the CO-Experts. Both instruments displayed the same readings - again, I'm just always amazed when you are measuring something in parts per MILLION and the readings between all these instruments were right on the money!!

jp_2

ok,

[Deleted User]

Boys, boys, boys....

jp, it's not so much a matter of WHAT you ask, as it is the WAY you ask that has a tendency to make the hair stand up on peoples neck. You remind me of a former employee of ours. This guys was a WIZARD when it came to methods of doing business, but his mannerisms were so abrasive that we had to fire him, or lose our whole work force. He had this HUGE chip on his shoulder, that he knew more about anything and everything in our company then even the president of our company did.

Remember, its easier to catch flies with honey then it is vinegar...

No need for anyone to be volatile or abrasive. It does absolutely no one any good. No one.

Peace, and as Rodney said, "Can't we all just get along???" :-)

Live to learn, and learn to live.


From what I've read of your posts, you are evidently WAY more learned than most who frequent this site, including myself. I could learn a lot from you I'm sure. But to come out of the blocks as a confrontational person will get you no where in life in a short hurry. Respect flows both ways.

BTW, I edited this post, not that it makes any difference, but if it makes you feel better to know, now you know...

ME

jp_2

written text

the problem with written text Mr.E is that there is no signs of inflection, no visual clues,eyes,smile,frown,etc. its easy to miss read someone message. am I being friendly or sarcastic?

funny thing is, it only seems to happen when I ask certain people questions about CO? during that whole thread last year on CO, about 5% said something about CO the rest just bashed me. I think its kind of funny the finger is being pointed solely at me?

Mark we've gone back and forth on a lot of radiant stuff, I never felt that you took my statements harshly? heck, I've learned a lot from your posts!

too many times this site seems like a 'good ole boys club' where outsiders aren't too welcome.

I, in no way intent to be abrasive, nor do I think I know it all or even 1 PPM. I do like to challenge ideas.

sure I was a bit harsh on the 'save the world billions of dollars guy" but he said some real abrasive stuff, and seems to lean heavily on sterotyping people, that I feel is wrong.

mostly I feel people here like to pounce on what I say because I do not have a CO analyzer,geeze I'm just a carpenter. and thats the ONLY way you can ever know anything, anything about combustion, because there are no books out there that can teah you this and the ones out there are wrong!

i come here to get ideas, and when something doesn't make sense, I ask a question.

I dug up a post between you and jim davis about CO levels in a room, its a great puzzle and I've been thinking about it for a couple of days, but if i post that I think the answer was wrong and ask to debate it I'll be hung?

so who is bashing who?

Timco

It would seem you bashed Rudy for telling a story about the accuracy of an instrument that apparently you do not have access to, or understand. As for knowing it all, without the tester, you can check all the physical properties of the install...gas pipe size, orifice size for altitude & btu, vent sizes, make-up & combustion air...but you will NEVER know what is actually happening in that appliance. Just that the house is heating, and there is a pretty blue flame. Can you enlighten anyone here as to how one would know any more without an analyzer? It just so happens that the Pro 125 takes the place of a CO detector, manometer, temp probe, O2 tester and calculates all the extras that at least I want to know.

Tim

Timco

Should anyone have taken the word "LAME!!!!!!" any differently? Maybe with a smile?

Tim

[Deleted User]

I dunno jp...

I can't justify reasons for what people say to you other than my own observations, and I've already expressed those.

Personally, I think we can ALL learn SOMETHING from each other. Each of us has something to contribute.

How is it that a guy with your college back ground ended up swinging a hammer for a living?

Not trying to be snide, just wondering from whence ye came...Some times, it helps to know ones back ground. It's important to know where people stand, so you can tell where they sit :-) (now THAT's a smile...)

ME

EBEBRATT-Ed

Hey jp guess what?? You Suck. I don't claim to know anything about co and am just on here to learn.

Your comments are abrasive and inflamatory and acusatory and I don't care if I did spell some of it rong. Get off your high horse and get the chip off your sholder.

ED

Timco

Has anyone here ever claimed to know everything? Even the instructors that pitch in? No. I as well am here to learn. What I will say is that water heater for water heater, boiler for boiler, the tech with an analyzer knows one hell of a lot more than the tech without it, and should sleep that much better because of it. Just try one and see

Tim

jp_2

oh good one,

got any other wisdom?

by the way I was talking to Mr ed there, not timco

jp_2

why stay in one spot?

ever hear of changing careers for fun, or change in location? big city, little town.

so mark, why does it matter what I do? seems like you are just trying to validate why I must be a failure?

"oh hes a failure so that must mean he does not know what he talking about"

why do my words not speak for themselves?

seems few people here can take any questioning of their knowledge? so then its bashing?

its funny what people hide behind on the wall.

ever hear me getting upset because someone questions me?
yep I edited this too

Timco

I can tell you everything about the last few water heaters and boilers I installed...seems like it would be over your head, though. Still waiting to hear how you personally set up a gas-fired appliance without testing....(almost forgot the smile...:))

jp_2

oh, that ones better yet

I love when people talk this way, true character comes out, oh it would be over your head!! thats a classic.

well heres one, this is a waste of time because anything I would tell you would be over your head!

what silly stupid agruements you guys are coming up with...

oh you suck, thats so 8th grader mentality. keep it up!

do you know what a chemistry book is? combustion is in there! what a surprise!

Timco

almost forgot...being certified in gas-piping and gas-fired equipment with UT, a journeyman electricial & journeyman welder, I can answer any questions you may have in those fields as well...since you asked.

Timco

Actually, you have yet to tell anyone anything about your own meathods...you just keep crying about our satisfaction in knowing all we can about a given subject....You are really something. Once more, should we still be assumeing you are smiling as you write? I as well was tired of the same 'ol and expanded my abilities / fields, but am still able to admit when someone knows more than myself. I am able to back-up my statements...not just try to slam others.

T

jp_2

question for timmy

Ok tim,

how many btu's come from the butane and propane found in general natural gas supplies, btu's per cubic foot?
you can estimate a percentage here.

and why do they give the numbers rounded so much?

why 100,000 btus/ft^3 instead of 100,753 btu's or 99,345 btu's?

whats the error in these measurements?

if you reduce the O2 by 5% to the burner, how many moles of CO will be produced?

Timco

None of these 'by the way' facts were covered in any of my gas cert training, but if being a gas plant whiz floats your boat, then row away, pal. You have YET to explain how you personally dial in a gas-fired appliance without testing. Love the timmy thing...made me cry...not. Maybe I'll look up some obscure fact about the weight of a full 171,000 btu boiler...or...maybe I'll spend my time & energy saving lives and spreading the word about unsafe appliances that have never been checked.

BTW, A mole is equal to 1 part in 10 million, professor, so you can do your own math from there...As you told Mark, I'm not playing your game. Maybe you would be better at trivial pursuit than combustion analysis.

Timmy

Timco

without a combustion analyzer, how would you of all people know if you DID lower the O2 by 5%???

Tim

Kevin O. Pulver

When Dad gets home from Hawaii,

I'm gonna tell him you been fightin'... and you're all in big trouble!
;-)Kevin

Timco

I come here to learn & share what I know...and do not appreciate seeing good people attacked because they DO test, and therefore DO know more than some...even if they took chemistry. As I said, I do not know everything, but do know more about the performance of an appliance that I install than someone who does not test. With that being said, signing off from this thread...it did manage to get just a bit off track.

Tim