warren webster vapor system

SteveB

We are bidding on reinsulating the mains, the asbestos has been off the system for a few years, I imagine the basement is the warmest area in the house. There aren't many wet returns on the system, we will be replacing all of them. I am looking forward to doing this job, I'm sure the homeowner will be very satisfied with his lower heating costs and increased comfort. I'll post photos when it's done. Thanks to all for the advise.

SteveB

warren webster vapor system

I'm bidding on a boiler replacement in an old house that has what I believe is a Warren Webster vapor system in it. I'm thinking that the best approach is to replace all of the thermostatic traps with new ones, and install a feed or condensate tank to make up into the boiler. The system has had regular radiator vents added to some of the radiators and some of the traps have been replaced recently from the looks of it. No doubt someone was treating a symptom. Any help would be appreciated.

Steamhead (in transit)

Don't need a return pump

on this Webster Modulation System. It always returned water by gravity, no need to change that. Just keep the pressure under 8 ounces or so with a Vaporstat and you'll be fine.

Replacement trap parts are available from Tunstall or Barnes & Jones. No need to tear out the old trap bodies. I'm sure some traps are bad and that's why some knucklehead put vents on some radiators.

If more air venting is needed, the plug at the top left on the front of the Vent Trap can be removed, and a Gorton #2 installed on an elbow there.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

SteveB

Thanks for your help, no feed pump will save on an already expensive job. What about the replacement thermostatic traps that were installed? Are they going to be compatible with the Warren Webster units? (I think so but..)

Steamhead (in transit)

What kind of replacements

were installed there?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

water back?

Hi Steve,

Steamhead has mentioned the importance of low pressure and vent capacity, two features of the Webster system that need to be maintained. But the third leg of the stool is the return of the condensate back to the boiler. You wanted to install a feed pump, which is a good idea on some systems, but not all. I suggest you inspect the wet returns, to see if they are clogged with the accumulated crud of eighty years of being the lowest portion of the piping. You might want to put in your bid the replacement of these pipes to be safe. Clogged wet returns can slow the return of the condensate, which causes the feeder to introduce fresh water to the system prematurely ( I hate premature introduction ), which results in a flooded boiler.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

many thanks

Hi Frank,

Thank you so much for listing the book as additional reading in your recent article. Much appreciated considering the source.

Keep steamin'.

Best regards, Pat

SteveB

I wsasn't able to see the models of two of the traps, but the other one I could see was a Spirax Sarco Model TA125BF.

John S.

If you don't already have it...

Gerry Gill and Steve Pajek's "Balancing Steam Systems Using a Venting Capacity Chart" (which can be found at the "Books & More" link) might be a wise investment.

A Webster Modulation system that I'm familiar is quite deceiving. Although many of Webster's traps appear to be the same (take a model 512H for instance) they often have different size orifices in the removable seat of the trap body. Two different sizes were used throught the building I'm familiar with. If there are 'cross-over' traps at the end of the mains, those likely are able to exhaust more air than the standard radiator traps.

Gerry & Steve tested that particular trap (and possibly more Websters) using the different size seats and discovered considerably different venting rates. This could play a significant role in trying to achieve a balanced system.

The charts will also give you an idea whether or not the replacements that were used (Spirax-Sarco, etc.) are comparable.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

clammy

Insulation

On another note are the steam mains insulated if not maybe include that in your bid i have personally seen the difference of re insulating steam mains it truely cuts down fuel bills .Also on another note remenber to try to copy the old boiler water line if not possible then maybe a false water line the last thing you want to do is put a condensate pump you don't need it as mentioned above check that wey return and replace if it's in bad shape because all that stuff in that wet retrurn will end up in your new boiler not good clogging lwco and water passes .Good luck and peace clammy

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

wet return replacement

Hi Steve,

Glad to hear that you are planning to replace the wet returns. Details like that make the job work right the first time.

Best regards, Pat

Mad Dog_2

You can get all the trap rebuild kits from Tunstall

in Chicopee Mass. Ask for woody. They are the best Mad Dogt

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"