steam heat and fine art, Pat Linhardt

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

Hi Boiler Guy,

We could be looking for buxom women or cold beer. Like we do when there is no pipes to oggle.

Best regards, Pat

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

steam heat and fine art

I promised my wife that I would go to an art show with her on Friday night. I expected the usual "like it or don't like it" as we strolled through the show. However, I was pleasantly surprised and totally engrossed the whole night.

The show was in an eight story converted warehouse-type building in a rather rough part of town, prime steam territory. As soon as I walked in my eyes drifted to the ceiling where I noticed a 6 or 8 inch pipe. Not far along the hallway, I found drip traps. I sensed I was in for a good time.

Arriving at the seventh floor, my wife wanted to visit a particular artist there first, I spotted a refreshment table. To my further delight, cold Killian's was on tap. Irish beer for an Irish toast, I sensed right then that I might actually enjoy this show. I mentally toasted the first to our good man Dan's birthday, and was off to look at the pipes the rest of the evening, occasionally interupted by a piece of art.

This was an interesting set-up, as most older systems are. The part that kept me interested for almost three hours and eight floors was the variety of ways the radiation was connected. It was all two pipe wall hung radiators with radiator traps. It was the different ways they were connected that kept me looking.

The horizontal radiators under the windows were generally connected on the supply side at the botom tap, although a few were at the top. It was the two or three wide vertical wall hungs between the windows that had the most variation.

I dutifully followed my wife from studio to studio. While she looked at the art, I was looking at the hook-ups. About half were connected at the top, half from the bottom. The top-connected had a manifold or header that had 1/2" lines into the top connections of the wall hung. Steam, air and condensate flows naturally down towards the trap. These were tall wall hungs, stacked up to eight or nine sections.

The bottom-connected were just as tall, so the steam would have to shoot to the top sections while the air and condensate flowed against it in the connecting nipple ports. Didn't seem like the right way to hook it up, but there it was on about half the radiators. The downfeed seemed like a better idea, but more work to fit up correctly.

On every connection, there was something different it seemed. Or maybe it was the beer talking at the end. Some trap outlets would have to go uphill to find the return pipe, some radiators were well off pitch to the wrong side, or sometimes a ball valve replaced an honest radiator valve. One artist started to decoratively paint the radiator, but then stopped. I asked her about it and she said it was distracting people away from her art.

I enjoyed the evening, art and steam heat in one visit, what more can a steam geek ask for. Feel free to comment or question. Sorry, no pics at this point.

Best regards, Pat

Jeff Lawrence_24

Good Job!

My bride sometimes gets tired of me looking at the HVAC stuff as we walk around a place, but she knows that's the way I am. You can find art that you like almost anywhere, much as you did.

I'd like to see the decoratively painted radiator. Who knows, it may become something big.

Jeff



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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

you too?

Hi Jeff,

I didn't know others were afflicted with the "look at the pipes" syndrome. We should have a support group.

Best regards, Pat

Jeff Lawrence_24

This

Is our support group.

Linda used to fuss at me as we's walk into restrauants. If we walked by the AC condensers, my arms would go out into the airflow as we walked by. I've made comments like 'Gonna be warm in there' or some such and been correct. I finally caught her doing it.

Jeff



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gerry gill

i look for radiators

in movies and on t.v. and just have to bring them to the attention of my wife..see loves that

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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

support group

Hi Jeff And Gerry,

Share the love.

Best regards, Pat

Jeff Lawrence_24

Mine too, Gerry.

She just rolls her eyes.

I love that woman.

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Unknown

Sorry to break up the party

Just the guys I wanted to type to.I'm trying to balance this system and I'm a little confused. I have 2 questions here. There 2 mains in this building.

One main is 32 ft. long of 2" (.736 cfm) and it takes 3 min. 20 sec. for steam to burst out of the main vent that's 6" away from being in the right spot. If I add the 9.5 cfm of the 3/4" open pipe I get a total of 10.236 cfm. Total vents would be 4 # 2's, 2 # 1's, and a gorton # 5 leaving me with .036 cfm left over. This side doesn't present a problem for me, because I'm dividing the combined total cfm of each radiator & their run-outs by 3 min. 20 sec. ( the time it takes steam to burst out of the main vent.) Also moving the main vent over 6" won't be that hard.

The 2nd main is 13 ft. of 2" (2.99 cfm) and it takes only 1 min. 45 sec. for steam to burst out of that main vent( also in the wrong spot.) .299 cfm + 9.5 cfm = 4 # 2's, 1 # 1, and 1 gorton # 6.


The questions are ;
1- When I divide the combined rad and run-out cfm with the lesser time (1 min. 45 sec.) I wind up with larger radiator vent as opposed to the other side which gives me smaller rad vents on the same cfm when divided by the higher time. Is that okay and correct?

2- When you look at the drawing, where would you put the main vent? Have 2 run-offs after the main vents concerns me. This has to make a difference in the balaning process.
Sorry no picture, I forgot my camera that day. Thank you my Yoda's of steam !

Steamhead (in transit)

And of course The Lovely Naoko

puts up with me doing this....... to me she's the most wonderful girl on Earth.

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Steamhead (in transit)

Try using a longer time period for the rads

say, 7-10 minutes to vent each one.

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gerry gill

somethings not right with the math..

divide by the same # system wide..don't change this number for half the system..either speed up the slow main or slow down the fast main..but try to even out the main runs first..hope that helps.

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Unknown

What is 7 to 10 minutes based on? According to the " vent capacity chart" the time period to size the rad vents is based on the amount of time it takes for air to be pushed out of the mains.

gerry gill

no, its not..

its based on a figure of YOUR choosing..

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Unknown

It seems we're online at the same time. I am mistaken about that. I guess I miss understood it. So if I use 4 min. for the rads that settles that because I like 4 minutes. But just to get something straight, can I divide the combined cfm's of my main and the main vent open 3/4 to come up my main vent size ? Like I would with the rad vents ?

gerry gill

the cubic foot of air in the pipe divided

by the time of your choice equals cubic feet per minute to vent..4 minutes sounds fine.

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Unknown

Okay, I get it now "the chart" lists an open 3/4 pipe as 9.5 cfm. 32 ft. of 2" pipe- .23cfm x 32ft. = 7.36cfm + 9.5 cfm = 16.86. My math was wrong. 16.86 cfm / 4 min. = 4.21. I would install 2 gorton # 2's on this main.

So the same method I use to balance the rad vents I can use to balance the main vents.

Please pardon me. All the jobs I've done this with have been single main.

Unknown

I'm 30 yrs old. Been plumbing for 12 yrs, but heating only 3yrs. I've learned more from the books I've read from you guys than anyone else I've worked for. I've just had a light bulb moment.

gerry gill

thats okay- there is

never any end to the learning..a day without learning is a wasted day, (thanks mom).

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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

a word of encouragement

Hi KC,

Sounds like you are really trying to understand this phenomenon we call steam heat. Keep reading and paying attention.

I learn something new I think on every job I look at, or understand something better with every article or old catalogue I read.

Good luck with this job and congratulations on your "light bulb" moment with balancing a one pipe system through venting. Of course, kudos to Gerry for helping him see the light.

Best regards, Pat

Boiler Guy

Pat

I too have that affliction. Any trip loses interest quickly if there are no pipes, radiator or boilers nearby to visit. I even have the sweet Mary Anne "trained" to point ot HVAC components in movies and places we visit. See it is a national phenomenon.

JK_3

Big 10-4 on all that !

I double checked Patrick Linhardt, "Linhardt's Field Guide to Steam Heating and the cfm per ft. for 2" is .023 not .23

Now I can't wait to come across a two-pipe system that needs balancing.

Long Beach Ed

Amaised

I'm an engineer by trade but I still am absolutely amaised that when working with numbers things come out perfectly.

First time I radiated a house using a heat loss calculation, the radiators were 1/5 the size that everyone elses uses, 1/5 the cost and the place heated beautifully.

Same with venting steam. Do the numbers, and it works.

Everytime.

Long BEach Ed

Unknown

Thats the difference between us and the guys that ran baseboard wall to wall. Heat calcs give you the proper amount of radiation. I' see a similar trend happening in the world of radiant. Guys just come in and low-ball everyone to get the job, & if you have a customer that just wants radiant super cheap.... Who gets the job ? It's an unfortunate reality. Thats why it's better to go for the clients that care more about results. It's easier to sell yourself to them.

Anthony Menafro

Rads

Mr. Linhardt,

Thank you for such an informative Field Guide to Steam Heating. I try to explain about how steam works, moves and what it needs to be effective to the newer guys in the trade. Your book helps a novice understand the basics as well as more advanced practices. The Field Guide sits right with my Lost Art of Steam Heating and both are invaluable when trying to make someone SEE what is happening.
I also constantly pester my wife about rads, traps and system piping and design. I feel as though I'm learning each and every time I see another system.

Thanks again,

Anthony Menafro

Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thank you for the kind words

Hi Anthony,

Glad you are enjoying the book, but more importantly that it is helping techs understand a little more about steam heating. Keep looking at the pipes, they always tell a story.

Best regards, Pat

Christian Egli_2

No, no, looking for buxom heaters

And isn't it nice how radiators don't get jealous? you can embrace them all.

I loved your story, Pat, it made me giggle. At least we've all got our steam fix for the day.

Do you all think there would be some value to having a list (here on this site I would hope) of public buildings with heating systems of interest. Hot spots for others to visit. Hotels with steam for us to patronize. That sort of thing.

With links this could be very useful and perhaps a source of revenue. I admit, though, I have no idea of how much work this can all be.

The Old Shoe Factory Antique Mall in Lebanon is one fine place your wife should love to go (antiquing) to... it has steam mains galore to follow around.

Cheers

Boiler Guy

THAT

would be WAY COOL Christian. I'd patronize them for sure!

Steamhead (in transit)

Is that the Lebanon

in Ohio?

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Unknown

Well if any of you play music and/or live in New Jersey and know where New Brunswick is, you can go to Big Noise Studios. This building doesn't have rads. It has 1" and 1 1/4" piped together with return bends. It's realy old and pretty cool to wrap your noodle around.

Christian Egli_2

Ohio it is indeed

Lebanon is mere minutes from either Cincinnati or Dayton, there is also the Golden Lamb Inn restaurant, at which some famous president ate once where you can see one pipe steam radiators.

Oooooh

Follow the tour guide...

Steamhead, I still have a nice memory of the Engineers Club in Baltimore where they've got what's left of a Paul system. I can be such a gawking tourist.

Steamhead (in transit)

Never been there

the Engineers' Club is now on my list.

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Patrick Linhardt, \"Linhardt's Field Guide to Ste

thanks for the tip

Hi Christian,

I'm sure that someday I will be in Lebanon with my wife, great little town. I'll definitely stop in to take a look.

I like your idea of "hot spots" for wetheads. I'll let you take the lead on compiling that.

Best regards, Pat

Anna Conda

Definitely not the only one. Its like an addiction........